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The Tech Oligarch's Republic

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Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#21

Post by relaxing »

snowpid wrote: post #2

It was fascinating, that the MAGA American conservatives lump the US together with Europe into "the West" though there has been significant differences in the averages people world view (and the elites ofc) Europe (ofc also diverse internally) is a secular or secular-becoming continent. There wouldnt be any big movement fighting to put the 10 commandments into class rooms. This affects formally religious countries li…

They crave access the authority and gravitas that they perceive as extending from the lengthy history of Western Europe, and they covet subservience to the divine rule of kings.

Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#22

Post by dqv »

g4t0r wrote: post #18
charcircuit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining the culture of white people does not require white supremacy.

"White people" do not have culture. Irish people, German people, Scandivian people: yeah, sure, of course they have culture. But "white" is not a culture, it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion. CF: people who are now, and previously weren't, considered white (Poles, Italians, some Jews, etc). If whiteness exists only to delineate the in groups/out groups, the only "culture" of whiteness is that…

Ok, but the people who look like me, who have historically been called "white people", do have a distinct, shared culture (or the people who aren't "white" wouldn't be able to point out how we act and what we do and our manner of speech). So what are these people called? What is their culture called? What are we renaming white-people tacos to? (and, no, tostadas are not the same thing as white-people tacos)

While I don't think my culture needs to be preserved nor do I care about being a "racial minority" (I live in a neighborhood where the majority of the people who live here are "non-white" - and, no, I didn't gentrify, it's actually just a very young neighborhood), I do want to be able to share my culture and traditions with other people. That's the whole basis of culture... sharing it with others.

And there's another thing. People who don't look like me call me "white people". What should they be calling me instead?

I think it would be a lot easier to shut white supremacists down if we had competent answers to these questions instead of thought terminating cliches like "white people don't have culture".

Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#23

Post by bigbadfeline »

g4t0r wrote: post #18
charcircuit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining the culture of white people does not require white supremacy.

"White people" do not have culture. Irish people, German people, Scandivian people: yeah, sure, of course they have culture. But "white" is not a culture, it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion. CF: people who are now, and previously weren't, considered white (Poles, Italians, some Jews, etc). If whiteness exists only to delineate the in groups/out groups, the only "culture" of whiteness is that…

> "White people" do not have culture.

Keep in mind, you replied to a comment that claimed that "the West" is used as another name for "White" and that's precisely how it's used in those circles.

So, to paraphrase, you deny that there's Western culture and it's part of European Culture. That is, you deny that there are cultural threads common for most of Europe and more so for Western Europe. I hope, I've said enough to convince you that you're wrong.

> But "white" is not a culture, it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion.

And? Using your logic, one can say that "German is not a culture, it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion" - if you were consistent, you'd also question the right of Germans to have a culture given that Bavaria, Saxony, etc do have cultural differences. The hair-splitting can go even further but the point should already be clear.

> So, yeah, I think "maintaining the culture of white people" inherently requires a concept of white supremacy.

So you claim that "maintaining the culture of Chinese people" inherently requires a concept of Chinese supremacy? Replace Chinese with German, Saxon, whatever... it doesn't compute.

Culture can be used as an excuse for supremacy and there are many other excuses too but fighting excuses instead of fighting supremacy can only help the supremacists.

Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#24

Post by Henchman21 »

hkpack wrote: post #8
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they perceive themselves as leading something bigger than a USA-only movement. Their concept of themselves has them being much more important than just affecting one nation.

It is funny that in terms of values they are not a leader but a follower of Russia. The origin and protector of all their conservative values - including fake Christianity, view on power and gender, race, minorities government structure and so on and so forth.

In my experience, they aren't a particularly sharp group.

Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#25

Post by cindyllm »

Henchman21 wrote: post #24
hkpack wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is funny that in terms of values they are not a leader but a follower of Russia. The origin and protector of all their conservative values - including fake Christianity, view on power and gender, race, minorities government structure and so on and so forth.

In my experience, they aren't a particularly sharp group.

[dead]

Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#26

Post by archagon »

dqv wrote: post #22
g4t0r wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"White people" do not have culture. Irish people, German people, Scandivian people: yeah, sure, of course they have culture. But "white" is not a culture, it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion. CF: people who are now, and previously weren't, considered white (Poles, Italians, some Jews, etc). If whiteness exists only to delineate the in groups/out groups, the only "culture" of whiteness is that…

Ok, but the people who look like me, who have historically been called "white people", do have a distinct, shared culture (or the people who aren't "white" wouldn't be able to point out how we act and what we do and our manner of speech). So what are these people called? What is their culture called? What are we renaming white-people tacos to? (and, no, tostadas are not the same thing as white-people tacos) While I d…

As a Russian person, my cultural heritage is Slavic, not "white". Ignoring skin tone, I’m not sure what my Slavic background has in common with — for instance — Italian or Irish culture. In fact, Italians, Irish, and Russians would not have been considered fully white in America during various parts of the last century.

The notion of a "white race" is a recent invention borne of slavery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people

What are your cultural traditions? How much do they overlap with mine as a fellow "white" person?

Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#27

Post by charcircuit »

none2585 wrote: post #16
charcircuit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining the culture of white people does not require white supremacy.

Separate but equal right?

No, equality is a cop out to avoid the problem of considering some cultures worse or better than others.

Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#28

Post by coolkewlcuil »

charcircuit wrote: post #20
g4t0r wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"White people" do not have culture. Irish people, German people, Scandivian people: yeah, sure, of course they have culture. But "white" is not a culture, it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion. CF: people who are now, and previously weren't, considered white (Poles, Italians, some Jews, etc). If whiteness exists only to delineate the in groups/out groups, the only "culture" of whiteness is that…

>"White people" do not have culture. This is a rude statement to claim as you are denying the existence of a group of people. Just because a group can consist of other subgroups that does not mean a larger group does not exist. >it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion. Everything can be a social construct if you want to try and frame it as one and while the actual definition may be complex it is n…

Focus on something useful like cheaper healthcare not culture wars

Culture = practice of a cult

I thought cults were considered bad?

Pearl clutching over words is little more than advocating a religious like dogma for the living

Well I am not Christian and similarly to not caring to chant their screeds I have no interest in yours

In fact the status quo in the US keeps me off the hook for paying for your healthcare; I am off thr hook for your life itself.

You might focus in changing that, because as-is all of us can let you end up living in your car

Culture war crap is intended to obfuscate and deflect away from those kinds of real problems our biology faces

Be smarter than the politicians and mouth breathers who wave flags

Re: The Tech Oligarch's Republic

#29

Post by dqv »

archagon wrote: post #26
dqv wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but the people who look like me, who have historically been called "white people", do have a distinct, shared culture (or the people who aren't "white" wouldn't be able to point out how we act and what we do and our manner of speech). So what are these people called? What is their culture called? What are we renaming white-people tacos to? (and, no, tostadas are not the same thing as white-people tacos) While I d…

As a Russian person, my cultural heritage is Slavic, not "white". Ignoring skin tone, I’m not sure what my Slavic background has in common with — for instance — Italian or Irish culture. In fact, Italians, Irish, and Russians would not have been considered fully white in America during various parts of the last century. The notion of a "white race" is a recent invention borne of slavery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

> As a Russian person, my cultural heritage is Slavic, not "white". Ignoring skin tone, I’m not sure what my Slavic background has in common with — for instance — Italian or Irish culture. In fact, Italians, Irish, and Russians would not have been considered fully white in America during various parts of the last century.

Well, yes. If you weren't dispossessed of your culture generations ago, then you won't identify with a grouping of people who were dispossessed of theirs in service to the idea of "whiteness".

You are caught up in the racial definition of whiteness, but I'm talking about culture. For the same reason a Ghanaian expat isn't black, neither would you be white. There is a reason many black Americans reject the term "African-American": it makes no sense - they were systemically dispossessed of their African roots generations ago.

> The notion of a "white race" is a recent invention borne of slavery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people

Yes, we know. I am specifically talking about the resultant culture that derived from this invention. If you can understand that black culture developed out of this invention through racist policy, then it should be possible to understand how this artificial separation did the same to white people.

> What are your cultural traditions? How much do they overlap with mine as a fellow "white" person?

What are my cultural traditions? I don't have a complete answer to that. We don't exactly have a "whiteness studies" major at colleges, and I wouldn't want one without serious and thoughtful consultation with the groups of people hurt by colonization.

To study even part of a culture is lifelong work. It took black academics decades to create a complete definition of racism as we know it today. And many more decades to describe black culture, which still hasn't been fully mapped out. To untangle what white culture is and what it isn't will also take many decades.

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