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Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

politico.com

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Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#21

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

rationalist wrote: post #18
gruez wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's not obvious why only cops can pay money for informants. You might say that they're paying criminals, but that's not clear either. The US has quite liberal free speech laws. You can say a lot of objectionable things without violating any laws.

> You might say that they're paying criminals, but that's not clear either. The US has quite liberal free speech laws. You specified paying arsonists in your first comment. I assume arson is a criminal action and not protected by free speech.

True, like wire fraud and money laundering.

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#22

Post by rationalist »

defrost wrote: post #17
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> what kind of mindless ideologue thinks this was just a whim for giggles? Likely not a single one - it's been starkly clear for more than a year that the current US Federal DoJ is being wielded not on a whim for shits and giggles but for revenge and manipulation.

Then either they shouldn't be laundering money, or we should repeal that law.

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#23

Post by xvxvx »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #16
xvxvx wrote: post #11

“The SPLC was not dismantling the groups,” Blanche said. “It was instead manufacturing the extremism it purports to oppose by paying sources to stoke racial hatred.” There was always something suspicious about the SPLC, almost like a big brother of the ADL. Both organizations profit greatly from the very thing they supposedly fight. Why dismantle something when you can turn it into a cash cow? The past decade has bee…

>Combined, the SPLC and ADL are worth about a billion dollars. To be fair, that seems like the vast majority weighted to the ADL. But otherwise, yes, if you have ever looked at SPLC, it’s been a little curious at best. I believe nothing right away, but if the claim is that the demand for racism outweighed the supply, I can image less plausible things that the indictment. Edit: I had no idea SPLC was so big. I guess I…

The SPLC is bigger than the ADL in terms of financial size. The SPLC has about $787 million in net assets and $129 million annual revenue (FY2024), compared to the ADL’s $87 million net assets (consolidated) and $163 million revenue. This was surprising to me.

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#24

Post by dsl »

drob518 wrote: post #8
gruez wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The scam was roughly the same as firemen paying arsonists to justify their salaries. What about paying low level arsonists to rat out their boss?

Private non-profits don’t do that. Police do that.

Everything from dog fighting rings to child trafficking has dedicated non-profit organizations with paid or volunteer staff doing investigative work. They collect OSINT, do surveillance, and yes, pay informants. As long as you don't break the law in the process (like doing surveillance from private property), you can build evidence to turn over to law enforcement to help open a case.

Something important to note here is informants aren't always in the organization or participating in the activity. It could be a truck stop attendant who texts you when the same guy stops in to buy a case of water and then slips it under the roll up door on his cargo van, or a dishwasher at a cafe who noticed a group of guys with the same tattoo. Things that on their own don't rise to the level of someone calling the police. Payments help people who otherwise would keep their mouth shut because they are in financial situations where they can't afford to lose their job.

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#25

Post by HWR_14 »

xvxvx wrote: post #11

“The SPLC was not dismantling the groups,” Blanche said. “It was instead manufacturing the extremism it purports to oppose by paying sources to stoke racial hatred.” There was always something suspicious about the SPLC, almost like a big brother of the ADL. Both organizations profit greatly from the very thing they supposedly fight. Why dismantle something when you can turn it into a cash cow? The past decade has bee…

> There are less than 4,000 neo-Nazis in the US

Do you have a source on that statistic? Because I just don't believe it.

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#26

Post by drob518 »

gruez wrote: post #13
drob518 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private non-profits don’t do that. Police do that.

Why? It's not obvious why only cops can pay money for informants. You might say that they're paying criminals, but that's not clear either. The US has quite liberal free speech laws. You can say a lot of objectionable things without violating any laws.

I didn’t say they were paying criminals. I said they were paying KKK and Nazis. I made an analogy to firemen and arsonists to make the point that they were fraudulently creating demand for their services, not to suggest that who they were paying were criminals. It’s not illegal on the face to be in the KKK or to be a Nazi, though certainly member of those groups have committed crimes in the past. The SPLC was engaging in fraud (allegedly) by both supporting hate groups while raising money from their donors to counter hate groups. And they were setting up fraudulent bank accounts to hide the money flows.

Here’s the indictment. Read it yourself. https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1437146/dl

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#27

Post by drob518 »

dsl wrote: post #24
drob518 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private non-profits don’t do that. Police do that.

Everything from dog fighting rings to child trafficking has dedicated non-profit organizations with paid or volunteer staff doing investigative work. They collect OSINT, do surveillance, and yes, pay informants. As long as you don't break the law in the process (like doing surveillance from private property), you can build evidence to turn over to law enforcement to help open a case. Something important to note here…

Here’s the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1437146/dl

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#28

Post by Vegenoid »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #9
bediger4000 wrote: post #2

By Trump's personalist DoJ. Presuming good faith on the part of Trump admin feds is a journalistic mistake.

[flagged]

> They are indicted in federal court… what kind of mindless ideologue thinks this was just a whim for giggles?

It is well-known that the bar for securing an indictment is very low. There is a famous quote about it: "Any good prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich."

It too is well-known that the Trump administration is exerting great pressure on the DOJ to charge political opponents with crimes. The most public of these was when the DOJ twice failed to secure an indictment against Letitia James, following pressure from Trump and the firing of DOJ prosecutors who resisted pursuing the case against James. This was notable because indictments are so easy to get.

The current acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, was asked about a message Trump sent to the previous AG (Bondi), where Trump wrote ""What about Comey, Adam 'Shifty' Schiff, Leticia??? ... They impeached me twice, and indicted me (5 times!), OVER NOTHING. JUSTICE MUST BE SERVED, NOW!!!". Blanche stated ""That type of communication from President Trump should make every American happy".

The SPLC has been highly critical of Trump for years, and been a legal thorn in his side. It's always been the case that a case being brought shouldn't be taken as any implication of guilt, and it is especially true in this case. The evidence, or lack thereof, will be revealed in court in due time.

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#29

Post by xvxvx »

HWR_14 wrote: post #25
xvxvx wrote: post #11

“The SPLC was not dismantling the groups,” Blanche said. “It was instead manufacturing the extremism it purports to oppose by paying sources to stoke racial hatred.” There was always something suspicious about the SPLC, almost like a big brother of the ADL. Both organizations profit greatly from the very thing they supposedly fight. Why dismantle something when you can turn it into a cash cow? The past decade has bee…

> There are less than 4,000 neo-Nazis in the US Do you have a source on that statistic? Because I just don't believe it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40915356

Re: Southern Poverty Law Center indicted for fraud, money laundering

#30

Post by drob518 »

dsl wrote: post #14
drob518 wrote: post #6

They were paying KKK members and Nazis. The scam was roughly the same as firemen paying arsonists to justify their salaries.

They were paying people to infiltrate the KKK and Nazi groups. It is the same as the arson investigator paying someone to hang out with the kids who play with matches to see who is starting the fires. The only "criminal" thing they did was encouraging non-white people to use their right to vote. How dare they do such a thing before the mid-term elections!

Here’s the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1437146/dl
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