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Fusion Power Plant Simulator

fusionenergybase.com

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Re: Fusion Power Plant Simulator

#21

Post by jcims »

leonidasrup wrote: post #5

For those interested not only in simplified energy balance of a fusion power plant as shown in Fusion Power Plant Simulator, but in more realistic engineering of heat extraction from a tokamak I recommend the following lecture by Dr. Dennis Whyte from MIT Plasma Science & Fusion Center. Fusion Reactor First Wall Cooling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHJyoqDO0zw One of the designs uses 3D printed silicon carbide vac…

>realistic engineering of heat extraction from a tokamak

This is why I love the idea of Helion so much.

Who knows if it will ever work, but skipping the thermal transport and doing direct current generation from EMF in the reactor seems like it has tremendous potential for simplifying (and eventually downsizing)

Re: Fusion Power Plant Simulator

#22

Post by Aardwolf »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19
cyberax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fusion power plants can't "melt down". The amount of plasma inside the vacuum chamber is just around a gram.

> Fusion power plants can't "melt down" Eh, a core-containment failure (in any magnetically-contained system) would involve superheated hydrogen getting friendly with oxygen. That, in turn, would give neutron-impregnated barrier materials a free ride on propellant. It's not strictly a melt down. But it's in the same practical category of failure.

What's the effect of this in a populated area in a certain radius? Compared to nuclear power plants...

Re: Fusion Power Plant Simulator

#23

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Aardwolf wrote: post #22
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fusion power plants can't "melt down" Eh, a core-containment failure (in any magnetically-contained system) would involve superheated hydrogen getting friendly with oxygen. That, in turn, would give neutron-impregnated barrier materials a free ride on propellant. It's not strictly a melt down. But it's in the same practical category of failure.

What's the effect of this in a populated area in a certain radius? Compared to nuclear power plants...

> What's the effect of this in a populated area in a certain radius?

I'd imagine this is, like with fission plants, deeply dependent on the specific design.

Re: Fusion Power Plant Simulator

#25

Post by gmueckl »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19
cyberax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fusion power plants can't "melt down". The amount of plasma inside the vacuum chamber is just around a gram.

> Fusion power plants can't "melt down" Eh, a core-containment failure (in any magnetically-contained system) would involve superheated hydrogen getting friendly with oxygen. That, in turn, would give neutron-impregnated barrier materials a free ride on propellant. It's not strictly a melt down. But it's in the same practical category of failure.

Ths is a massive misunderstanding of the technology. First of all, the amount of hydrogen in the reactor is tiny. The magnetic confinement severely limits the density of the plasma. The inner containment vessel is a ultra high vacuum chamber. The chemical energy that would be released by a reaction between the hydrogen in the reactor amd oxygen from the air would be less than what is released by popping a hydrogen filled balloon with a lighter.

The truly concerning failure modes would be related to release of radiation or activated materials. But that would require damaging the reactor in ways that the reactor is incapable of imparting on itself.

Overall, the technology is remarkably safe.

Re: Fusion Power Plant Simulator

#26

Post by Symmetry »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19
cyberax wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fusion power plants can't "melt down". The amount of plasma inside the vacuum chamber is just around a gram.

> Fusion power plants can't "melt down" Eh, a core-containment failure (in any magnetically-contained system) would involve superheated hydrogen getting friendly with oxygen. That, in turn, would give neutron-impregnated barrier materials a free ride on propellant. It's not strictly a melt down. But it's in the same practical category of failure.

There's only a few grams of hydrogen in the reactor's plasma, it's reaction with oxygen wouldn't be much more exciting than just losing containment. There are engineering challenges that have to be addressed but no worse than the 6 MW research reactor I used to walk by every day to my college classes in the middle of a dense city.

The proliferation risk of someone using the neutron flux to produce an atomic or dirty bomb are real but that exists no matter where it is.

Re: Fusion Power Plant Simulator

#27

Post by ExpertAdvisor01 »

MisterTea wrote: post #7

No melt down? This game sucks. On a serious note: I wonder how practical and safe it would be to build fusion pants close to city centers in order to harvest the excess heat for district heating. Would be a boon in e.g. NYC which already has a large district steam system. You can do cooling too, look up "steam absorption chiller."

It already exists in many countries. They transport it through pipelines .

E.g. Temelín Nuclear Power Plant, Paks Nuclear Power Plant And many more

Re: Fusion Power Plant Simulator

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross »

gmueckl wrote: post #25
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fusion power plants can't "melt down" Eh, a core-containment failure (in any magnetically-contained system) would involve superheated hydrogen getting friendly with oxygen. That, in turn, would give neutron-impregnated barrier materials a free ride on propellant. It's not strictly a melt down. But it's in the same practical category of failure.

Ths is a massive misunderstanding of the technology. First of all, the amount of hydrogen in the reactor is tiny. The magnetic confinement severely limits the density of the plasma. The inner containment vessel is a ultra high vacuum chamber. The chemical energy that would be released by a reaction between the hydrogen in the reactor amd oxygen from the air would be less than what is released by popping a hydrogen fi…

> chemical energy that would be released by a reaction between the hydrogen in the reactor amd oxygen from the air would be less than what is released by popping a hydrogen filled balloon with a lighter

Thanks for the correction. If you're breeding lithium in the walls, might that be an incendiary concern?

Re: Fusion Power Plant Simulator

#30

Post by markvdb »

advisedwang wrote: post #13
MisterTea wrote: post #7

No melt down? This game sucks. On a serious note: I wonder how practical and safe it would be to build fusion pants close to city centers in order to harvest the excess heat for district heating. Would be a boon in e.g. NYC which already has a large district steam system. You can do cooling too, look up "steam absorption chiller."

> I wonder how practical and safe it would be to build fusion pants close to city centers in order to harvest the excess heat for district heating The cost/benefit for doing this seems pretty similar between fusion as gas power. We don't usually do this with gas, so I guess it's probably not viable for fusion.

Combined heat and electricity production is uncommon in the US, but much more so in Europe. Especially in the Baltics, Scandinavia and the Netherlands, non-CHP generation is rare. Related: higher energy cost, and elaborate local heat distribution networks.
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