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Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

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21–30 of 242 posts

Re: Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

#21

Wonderful article and a good fit with HN’s motto of “move slowly and preserve things” as opposed to Silicon Valley’s jingoistic “move fast and break things”. It highlights the often perplexing human tendency to reinvent rather than reuse. Why do we, as a species, ignore hard-won experience and instead restart? In doing so, often making mistakes that could have been avoided if we’d taken the time or had the curiosity/…

> Why do we, as a species, ignore hard-won experience and instead restart?

Humanity moves from individual to society, not the reverse.

Some knowledge moves from the plural to the singular, top to bottom, but the regular existential mode is bottom-up, which point The Famous Article (TFA) makes in the context of programming languages.

Children and ideas grow from babe to adult. They do not spring full grown from the brow of Zeus other than in myth.

Re: Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

#23
Ada is a language that had a lot of useful features much earlier than any of the languages that are popular today, and some of those features are still missing from the languages easily available today.

In the beginning Ada has been criticized mainly for 2 reasons, it was claimed that it is too complex and it was criticized for being too verbose.

Today, the criticism about complexity seems naive, because many later languages have become much more complex than Ada, in many cases because they have started as simpler languages to which extra features have been added later, and because the need for such features had not been anticipated during the initial language design, adding them later was difficult, increasing the complexity of the updated language.

The criticism about verbosity is correct, but it could easily be solved by preserving the abstract Ada syntax and just replacing many tokens with less verbose symbols. This can easily be done with a source preprocessor, but this is avoided in most places, because then the source programs have a non-standard appearance.

It would have been good if the Ada standard had been updated to specify a standardized abbreviated syntax besides the classic syntax. This would not have been unusual, because several old languages have specified abbreviated and non-abbreviated syntactic alternatives, including languages like IBM PL/I or ALGOL 68. Even the language C had a more verbose syntactic alternative (with trigraphs), which has almost never been used, but nonetheless all C compilers had to support both the standard syntax and its trigraph alternative.

However, the real defect of Ada has been neither complexity nor verbosity, but expensive compilers and software tools, which have ensured its replacement by the free C/C++.

The so-called complexity of Ada has always been mitigated by the fact that besides its reference specification document, Ada always had a design rationale document accompanying the language specification. The rationale explained the reasons for the choices made when designing the language.

Such a rationale document would have been extremely useful for many other programming languages, which frequently include some obscure features whose purpose is not obvious, or which look like mistakes, even if sometimes there are good reasons for their existence.

When Ada was introduced, it was marketed as a language similar to Pascal. The reason is that at that time Pascal had become the language most frequently used for teaching programming in universities.

Fortunately the resemblances between Ada and Pascal are only superficial. In reality the Ada syntax and semantics are much more similar to earlier languages like ALGOL 68 and Xerox Mesa, which were languages far superior to Pascal.

The parent article mentions that Ada includes in the language specification the handling of concurrent tasks, instead of delegating such things to a system library (task = term used by IBM since 1964 for what now is normally called "thread", a term first used in 1966 in some Multics documents and popularized much later by the Mach operating system).

However, I do not believe that this is a valuable feature of Ada. You can indeed build any concurrent applications around the Ada mechanism of task "rendez-vous", but I think that this concept is a little too high-level.

It incorporates 2 lower level actions, and for the highest efficiency in implementations sometimes it may be necessary to have access to the lowest level actions. This means that sometimes using a system library for implementing the communication between concurrent threads may provide higher performance than the built-in Ada concurrency primitives.

Re: Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

#24
post #20

Wonderful article and a good fit with HN’s motto of “move slowly and preserve things” as opposed to Silicon Valley’s jingoistic “move fast and break things”. It highlights the often perplexing human tendency to reinvent rather than reuse. Why do we, as a species, ignore hard-won experience and instead restart? In doing so, often making mistakes that could have been avoided if we’d taken the time or had the curiosity/…

Does anyone understand how/why old HN accounts become mouthpieces for language models?

Erm, well, the comment wasn’t AI generated, it was by me - a warts and all human. The sibling comments say TFA is AI generated and I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t spot that. Still found it interesting though.

Re: Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

#25
post #20

Wonderful article and a good fit with HN’s motto of “move slowly and preserve things” as opposed to Silicon Valley’s jingoistic “move fast and break things”. It highlights the often perplexing human tendency to reinvent rather than reuse. Why do we, as a species, ignore hard-won experience and instead restart? In doing so, often making mistakes that could have been avoided if we’d taken the time or had the curiosity/…

Does anyone understand how/why old HN accounts become mouthpieces for language models?

That seems uncharitable.

Re: Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

#26

Wonderful article and a good fit with HN’s motto of “move slowly and preserve things” as opposed to Silicon Valley’s jingoistic “move fast and break things”. It highlights the often perplexing human tendency to reinvent rather than reuse. Why do we, as a species, ignore hard-won experience and instead restart? In doing so, often making mistakes that could have been avoided if we’d taken the time or had the curiosity/…

> Why do we, as a species, ignore hard-won experience and instead restart? Humanity moves from individual to society, not the reverse. Some knowledge moves from the plural to the singular, top to bottom, but the regular existential mode is bottom-up, which point The Famous Article (TFA) makes in the context of programming languages. Children and ideas grow from babe to adult. They do not spring full grown from the br…

Thanks, that’s helpful. My wife is a teacher and talks about knowledge being recreated, not relearned: IOW it’s new to the learner even if known by the teacher. Hadn’t put those things together before.

Re: Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

#28
> Every language that has added sum types in the past twenty years has added, with its own syntax, what Ada's designers put in the original standard.

While true, that doesn't mean that other language's sum types originated in Ada. As [1] states,

> NPL and Hope are notable for being the first languages with call-by-pattern evaluation and algebraic data types

and a modern language like Haskell has origins in Hope (from 1980) through Miranda.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_(programming_language)

Re: Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

#29
post #15

The Twitter account is from April 2026: https://xcancel.com/Iqiipi_Essays There is no named public author. A truly amazing productivity for such a short time period and generously the author does not take any credit.

No author because its a bot.

Re: Ada, its design, and the language that built the languages

#30

I am wondering what the Ada equivalent of affine types is. What is the feature that solves the problem that affine types solve in Rust.

There is none as far as affine types go, even is there is a parallel to be made with limited types, but they don’t serve the same purpose.

The way Ada generally solves the same problem is by allowing much more in terms of what you can give a stack lifetime to, return from a function, and pass by parameters to functions.

It also has the regular « smart pointer » mechanisms that C++ and Rust also have, also with relatively crappy ergonomics

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