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Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

reich.hms.harvard.edu

21–30 of 72 posts

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The didn't decide, they observed; consistent directional pressure over thousands of years is strong evidence that an allele is being selected for.

So if it survives it's fit, if it's fit it survives? The old tautology

Not a tautology but a definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_(biology)

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear: most people who are keen on making such an argument, or who are identifying racial genetic differences as the primary takeaway of studies like this, are doing so to justify racism, either implicitly or explicitly. But that's a strawman. Racism is wrong, even if there are minor genetic variances across populations (which... seems obvious?) Variance within a population strongly dominates the weak cross-pop…

And yet you are also likely to argue “weather is not climate”. Differences in population characteristics of all kinds have massive societal implications and we should lean into addressing them.

Well if you are talking about environmental stuff (like leaded gasoline), sure.

If you’re talking about trying to improve the genetics of populations at scale… yikes.

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if it survives it's fit, if it's fit it survives? The old tautology

Not a tautology but a definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_(biology)

But other than it surviving, there's no way to define fitness.

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#24
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The didn't decide, they observed; consistent directional pressure over thousands of years is strong evidence that an allele is being selected for.

So if it survives it's fit, if it's fit it survives? The old tautology

Whatever does not survive stops registering in later times; most of the time, what helps survival is retained, and what helps survival is what increases fitness.

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The didn't decide, they observed; consistent directional pressure over thousands of years is strong evidence that an allele is being selected for.

So if it survives it's fit, if it's fit it survives? The old tautology

The flip side is everything is being degraded by random mutation.

It's like holding a large ball in place on a hill that sees frequent tremors. If the ball is still halfway up the hill it's being held in place, if it's being held in place it's still halfway up the hill. It might be considered a tautology if you're only working with symbols and ignore all the mechanistics.

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a tautology but a definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_(biology)

But other than it surviving, there's no way to define fitness.

It's more reproducing than surviving. If the population of some species increases and the number of copies of some allele remains constant we could consider than gene less fit than the other alleles, in the population genetics sense. So it's frequency rather than survival that geneticists look at. But that proves that there are indeed other ways that they could have defined fitness if they wanted to.

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a tautology but a definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_(biology)

But other than it surviving, there's no way to define fitness.

That is correct. Biology uses the term fit slightly different than the general public

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if it survives it's fit, if it's fit it survives? The old tautology

Whatever does not survive stops registering in later times; most of the time, what helps survival is retained, and what helps survival is what increases fitness.

As stated, this feels wrong. Specifically, it does not account for traits being appropriate for environment. I like to say it as what was needed for one stage could be the problem for the next stage.

That is, traits that stop registering may no longer be something that helps survival. But that does not mean they were not necessary for survival at an earlier point.

Re: Ancient DNA reveals pervasive directional selection across West Eurasia [pdf]

#29
post #13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're talking about this bit: > We finally observed signals of selection for combinations of alleles that today are associated with three correlated behavioural traits: scores on intelligence tests (increasing γ = 0.74 ± 0.12), household income (increasing γ = 1.12 ± 0.12) and years of schooling (increasing γ = 0.63 ± 0.13). These signals are all highly polygenic, and we have to drop 449–1,056 loci for the…

I haven’t had time to really dig in to the paper but these data (from only one region) are limited in their ability to compare regions, right? If anything they seem to support homogenization of intellectual capacity/mental health in Eurasia since 2kya. The methodology, if it holds up, seems to hold a lot of promise for answering questions like this in the future.

Yes, they only had data for West Eurasia.

> Just because an allele, SNP, or trait swept into or out of West Eurasia during this time doesn’t mean this happened only in West Eurasia. Researchers can use the new computational methods to look for directional selection in other populations worldwide that have enough ancient DNA sequences and construct a clearer picture of what’s unique to different groups and what generalizes across populations.

> Reich expects that future studies will show that shared selective pressures acted on some of the same core traits across diverse human groups, even as those groups split off and migrated to different parts of the world over tens of thousands of years.

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/massive-ancient-dna-study-revea...

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