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Von der Leyen uses Orbán defeat to push for end of veto in EU foreign policy

politico.eu

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Re: Von der Leyen uses Orbán defeat to push for end of veto in EU foreign policy

#21

Post by dh2022 »

watwut wrote: post #11
barbazoo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no path where this would be a good idea unless you want to create a group where everyone thinks the same. If Hungary is a bit of a flip flop in terms of democracy then either they have to focus their attention on improving living conditions there so people realize the value of their alliance (if that's the purpose, improving living conditions) or realize that Hungary isn't a good fit for this type of alliance a…

First, Hungary is not a "a bit of a flip flop in terms of democracy". They are just not fully democratic country anymore, full stop. The system there did not changed, judiciary, media and the rest of the country are as much in the hands of a leader and easy to be abused as yesterday. The person on top of it changed. He did promised reforms, it remains to be seen whether they happen or not. But second, regardless of H…

Ditto. EU would be much better without Hungary. And if on their way out Hungary could leave with Slovakia that would be even better.

Re: Von der Leyen uses Orbán defeat to push for end of veto in EU foreign policy

#24

Post by busterarm »

iammjm wrote: post #23

To all against a priori against this, I encourage you to read up on the history and consequences of "liberum veto"

This is very short term thinking.

The EU will not survive losing the veto. And it'll happen in under a decade.

Re: Von der Leyen uses Orbán defeat to push for end of veto in EU foreign policy

#25

Post by redeeman »

watwut wrote: post #16
redeeman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haha, a miracle happened, people voted someone out, but its NOT a democracy. why is it so needed to try paint it as not a democracy when it has CLEARLY proven that it is such

Mostly because I know more about Hungarian system then you. It is was not clearly proven as such. The system is still heavily favoring one party. Just because you can flip who is on top of all stars align and 80% of voters come in mostly does not make it functional democracy worth the name. Orban was able to stay in power so long, because anything less then that would mean he gets all that power again. Opposition med…

"one last chance to reform", i dont buy it. these things happen, and will happen again. people have been predicting doom for thousands of years, but this time its truly the last!

Re: Von der Leyen uses Orbán defeat to push for end of veto in EU foreign policy

#26

Post by redeeman »

watwut wrote: post #17
redeeman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone has veto is literally a system where everyone must think the same, else nothing will happen. thats not true, it just means that everone must not be extremely opposed to something for it to happen.

No, it means anyone can make any decision hostage. They do not need to be extremely opposed. They just need to slightly not want it.

and yet this is clearly not what has happened. you COULD make any decision hostage, but thats not what anyone does, as such, the veto has a very important purpose, and removing it would be betraying the terms that the union was based on, just because people are now members. its basically "I altered the deal, pray I dont alter it further"

Re: Von der Leyen uses Orbán defeat to push for end of veto in EU foreign policy

#27

Post by iknownothow »

Out of curiosity, can there not be something like a two party or N party veto? i.e. requiring a minimum of two or N parties to work together to veto?

The choice between just a single party having a veto power vs no party with veto powers seems a little black and white to me. Happy to be enlightened on the matter.

Re: Von der Leyen uses Orbán defeat to push for end of veto in EU foreign policy

#28

Post by snowpid »

iknownothow wrote: post #27

Out of curiosity, can there not be something like a two party or N party veto? i.e. requiring a minimum of two or N parties to work together to veto? The choice between just a single party having a veto power vs no party with veto powers seems a little black and white to me. Happy to be enlightened on the matter.

An N party veto is called a quorum. So if you need 75 % of all countries, it is a 7 nation veto.

Re: Von der Leyen uses Orbán defeat to push for end of veto in EU foreign policy

#29

Post by snowpid »

solaarphunk wrote: post #18

Brussels appears to be extremely tone deaf to the basic needs of ordinary people, and taking further steps in a direction to centralize power is just going to push more people to the far right. For example, the fact that right-wing governments in central and eastern Europe are protecting their borders, represents a very popular perspective, apparently shared by very few in the EU governing body. Consolidating power a…

" ... apparently shared by very few in the EU governing body." Source? Given Frontex' action I doubt it.
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