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Layoff Thinking

blogs.newardassociates.com

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Re: Layoff Thinking

#21

Post by munificent »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #6
mnzi wrote: post #4

In my opinion that does not quite explain it completely. I recently read Mind over Grind by Guy Winch and he tries to explain it with Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and that losing our job costs us security, social structure, status, accomplishment, as well as a sense of our identity.

I suspect most retirees would disagree.

Many would disagree but many would disagree.

When you look around or start talking to older folks you discover that retirement is often a traumatic transition, even when entered voluntarily. The loss of structure, frequent social interaction, and a sense of meaning can be really difficult. There are a lot of people who retire and die not long after because they sort of stop thriving in the absence of those things. It's particularly bad for men who relied on their career both for their self worth and their social interaction.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#22

Post by munificent »

jjmarr wrote: post #12
paulcole wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it don’t you understand?

You can never get into any kind of detail with people from a different career path. Like, "I'm a software engineer" is the most people understand. If I say "I write tests for the GPU factory to improve semiconductor yield and screen parts" then launch into something about product binning, there's only 1% of people who'll be interested. The typical marketing person or government bureaucrat won't care. Meanwhile "how d…

I love talking to people about their work, especially if it's a field I know nothing about. People spend eight hours a day doing something, they have a lot of knowledge about it.

When it's a job that's opaque to me, I like asking "What's a typical day for you like at work?"

Re: Layoff Thinking

#23

Post by munificent »

kakacik wrote: post #3

> We are so conditioned to believe that we have no inherent worth in capitalism unless we are EARNING. This is a fabulation, right. What kind of POS parent would instill self-worth on money and career into their kids? Apart from being amoral and flawed at the core, it would often lead to mental issues since amount of people that like (not even love) their work is in low single digit %

People do not absorb culture only from their parents.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#24

Post by munificent »

There's another aspect this article doesn't mention that I think about a lot.

I've been on the same team for over a decade, as have many of my teammates. I've probably spent more time in the same room with some of these people than I have my wife and kids. We've shared hundreds of meals together, built things together, struggled together, traveled together, laughed, grieved.

In all meaningful senses of the word, they are my tribe.

And if one of us gets laid off, we're effectively forcibly ejected from the tribe by a complete stranger.

Yes, we can socialize outside of work too, and we do sometimes. But there is simply no replacement for the kind of connection you get from working on the same project together for hours a day every day.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#25

Post by munificent »

cortesoft wrote: post #19

I don't know. When I was laid off, I had no questions about my identity or self worth. I knew it wasn't any fault of mine, the company was just failing because the business plan was bad. My worry was how I was going to manage my budget, how long my savings would last, etc. It was 100% practical concerns. I didn't worry about my identity, I worried about my mortgage. I knew I had savings to last many months, but not s…

You are lucky. Some people, when laid off, struggle with all of the stress of not knowing how to pay bills that you do and on top of that struggle with a sense of lost self worth and other psychological pain.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#26

Post by thephyber »

dozerly wrote: post #17
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect most retirees would disagree.

There’s a key distinction you’re intentionally ignoring with this comment… retirees don’t need the job they gave up to satisfy their pyramid. Employed people often do.

Retirees without a meaning outside of work don’t live long. They don’t need “a job”, but like every human, they need a reason to wake up in the morning. For lots of people (even retirees), that is/was a job.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#27

Post by cortesoft »

munificent wrote: post #25
cortesoft wrote: post #19

I don't know. When I was laid off, I had no questions about my identity or self worth. I knew it wasn't any fault of mine, the company was just failing because the business plan was bad. My worry was how I was going to manage my budget, how long my savings would last, etc. It was 100% practical concerns. I didn't worry about my identity, I worried about my mortgage. I knew I had savings to last many months, but not s…

You are lucky. Some people, when laid off, struggle with all of the stress of not knowing how to pay bills that you do and on top of that struggle with a sense of lost self worth and other psychological pain.

I feel like a good chunk of that loss of self worth is caused by the struggle to pay bills? In other words, the psychological pain is a symptom of the economic pain.

I don’t think you can make much progress against the psychological pain unless you deal with the economic pain, and once you deal with the economic pain, the rest will go away.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#28

Post by ip26 »

gfody wrote: post #16
datadrivenangel wrote: post #8

Humans are very sensitive to being ostracized, and modern layoffs in aggregate are at least partially (~20%) intended and communicated as being ways to get rid of 'low performers', so we know that even when we get laidoff simply due to not making a cut line on a spreadsheet we still think it may be due to our own performance and also that others may think that as well.

vibe layoffs are bad practice due to fundamental attribution error (line managers don't necessarily have any idea who their low performers are even if they think they do) and ultimately expose the company to discrimination lawsuits if hr doesn't enforce a fair and consistent selection criteria

So what do you recommend instead, a dice roll?

Re: Layoff Thinking

#29

Post by rafaelmn »

cortesoft wrote: post #27
munificent wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are lucky. Some people, when laid off, struggle with all of the stress of not knowing how to pay bills that you do and on top of that struggle with a sense of lost self worth and other psychological pain.

I feel like a good chunk of that loss of self worth is caused by the struggle to pay bills? In other words, the psychological pain is a symptom of the economic pain. I don’t think you can make much progress against the psychological pain unless you deal with the economic pain, and once you deal with the economic pain, the rest will go away.

I've heard plenty of anecdotes of people well off financially getting psychologically distressed after a layoff so I don't think it's purely financial.

Re: Layoff Thinking

#30

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Heck, we take it well, compared to Japan. They really identify with their jobs.

There's people that commit suicide, if they get laid off or fired. May not be as prevalent, as it was, a couple decades ago. At one time, execs also took enormous Responsibility and Accountability, for the performance of their companies. I feel as if American execs could learn a thing or two from them.

The worst punishment that you can get, at a Japanese company, is a "window seat." This is a "do-nothing" job, where you stare out the window all day. Many Americans would dream about that job.

For myself, I was laid off, after almost 27 years at a company. It sucked, but I knew it was coming, and was well-prepared.

I wasn't so prepared for the reception that I got from the tech industry, though.

As things turned out, once I got past all that stuff, it's been damn good. I still code every day, and regularly release apps; I just do it on my own, and have had to neck down my scope.

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