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CSS is DOOMed

nielsleenheer.com

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Re: CSS is DOOMed

#21

Post by Levitating »

sbarre wrote: post #9
Levitating wrote: post #2

Is CSS that awesome? It's still a language designed for styling webpages with 30 year of added features. I'd argue something purpose built would be a much better tool for the potential usecases people try to use CSS for now. I guess I am asking, if modern CSS is so awesome, it's awesome compared to what exactly?

What kind of system would you propose (or do you envision) for applying visual styling to HTML markup in modern web pages today? You can keep it high level but your comment makes me think you have something in mind, and I'm honestly curious.

I am not sure what a purpose-built tool would look like, but the CSS-like language you see in UI frameworks like GTK is tailored for styling actual UI's.

In CSS on the web, just centering a div has historically been a problem. We have flexbox now, but what if CSS was designed with our current needs from the get-go?

Re: CSS is DOOMed

#23

Post by Levitating »

oopsiremembered wrote: post #4
Levitating wrote: post #2

Is CSS that awesome? It's still a language designed for styling webpages with 30 year of added features. I'd argue something purpose built would be a much better tool for the potential usecases people try to use CSS for now. I guess I am asking, if modern CSS is so awesome, it's awesome compared to what exactly?

I think the argument lies in its flexibility and versatility (regardless of it being the most efficient or effective tool for this one particular task). Duct tape is awesome for the same reason -- even though there are several effective use cases for duct tape where a different tool would technically be "better" for the job.

But you don't choose CSS, it's the only tool in the toolbox. As long as you stick to the Web.

Re: CSS is DOOMed

#24

Post by anthk »

notnmeyer wrote: post #14

at this point i’m more interested in what _can’t_ run doom.

I ran calypso.z3, tristam_island.z3 and a few more Zmachine text adventures under an interpreter created in PostScript.

Also if I want I can cross-compile a static build of Frotz for Linux/Misc and emulate it under a RISC interpreter for Linux syscalls written in... Perl, runable in every modern Perl port out there. Linux/RISC binary under Perl for NetBSD/Vax? Yes. Slow? Not much, it's a text game in the end.

But, as for the ZMachine, you can run text adventures in Android, Game Boy, Amiga, MSDOS, Windows, Palm PDA's... anything 8bit and up.

Also, damn Sokoban under Eforth written in Subleq, a VM which can just:

- set up a 2^16 RAM size

- single opcode: substract A from B, if less than 0, go to addr in C. - A This, just this, and people wrote Subleq simulators in C, AWK, Python, TCL, FPGA's and whatnot. And it will run Eforth, and that means... you can write a ZMachine interpreter on it and be really slow if emulated in a Pentium 4 (maybe 3/5 seconds per command with a ZMachine on top of Eforth for Muxleq instead of Subleq), but the game will be playable and a great exercise on Turing completeness.

If a Mandlebrot render under Muxleq+EForth (with no floats used, just integers) is as fast as a C64/Amiga with a native Forth. then having that tiny EForth+Muxleq is not that useless.

https://github.com/howerj/muxleq

Re: CSS is DOOMed

#26

Post by captn3m0 »

sheept wrote: post #7

Creating 3D scenes with CSS has always been possible[0], but like this project, it's required JavaScript for interactivity. But there's a lot more CSS features now. While in the past, Turing completeness in CSS required humans to click on checkboxes, now CSS can emulate an entire CPU without JavaScript or requiring user interaction.[1] So I wonder if DOOM could be purely CSS too, in real time. [0]: https://keithclark…

The author links to th CSS x86 project:

> Yes, Lyra Rebane build a x86 CPU completely in CSS, but that technique is simply not fast enough for handing the game loop. So the result is something that uses a lot of JavaScript.

Re: CSS is DOOMed

#27

Post by amelius »

jsjsjxxnnd wrote: post #20

In recent years CSS has become closer to a full programming language through experimental features, for example in 2025 they added if statements and some math functions like modulo https://www.simplethread.com/new-and-upcoming-css-features-i...

The only thing missing is the ergonomics of a real programming language.
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