I like the idea, but I'm not sure how enforceable it will be in practice. It seems like it would be relatively difficult to prove a company is using surveillance pricing, and companies may just accept the risk of paying a fine.
Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
21–30 of 73 posts
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Allowing private right of action means this will be weaponized by attorneys in the same way the ADA has. Just scanning the bill, any small business in the US using dynamic pricing, targeted discounts or "VIP pricing" on their website would be open to suits from Colorado residents. The definitions are extremely broad and there is no safe harbor for small companies either. Damages are also uncapped and apparently Color…
Sounds great! The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. These sorts of "special discounts" are fundamentally harmful to the economy as a whole.
> The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable.
The theory behind capitalism requires people to take into account what they know when making decisions.
Suppose you have a business where many customers expect to be able to try the product before committing to buy it so the cost of paying for shipping for "free returns" has to be incorporated into the advertised price. Then you notice that a subset of customers have a better idea of what they want and never trouble you with returns, so you want to give them a discount to try to get more of their business.
That's capitalism working the way it's supposed to. The customers who consume fewer resources get to pay lower prices. But it's the thing this bill prohibits, isn't it?
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s right at the top of the linked bill. The attorney general or a district attorney may bring a civil action on behalf of the state against a person that violates the prohibition against individualized price or wage setting based on surveillance data to seek the imposition of civil penalties. In addition, a person aggrieved by a violation of the prohibition specified in the bill may bring a civil action on behalf o…
Allowing private right of action means this will be weaponized by attorneys in the same way the ADA has. Just scanning the bill, any small business in the US using dynamic pricing, targeted discounts or "VIP pricing" on their website would be open to suits from Colorado residents. The definitions are extremely broad and there is no safe harbor for small companies either. Damages are also uncapped and apparently Color…
On the other hand, without private right to action, consumers may have no recourse if the AG doesn't wish to pursue action (possibly due to corruption, or lack of resources).
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds great! The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. These sorts of "special discounts" are fundamentally harmful to the economy as a whole.
> The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. The theory behind capitalism requires people to take into account what they know when making decisions. Suppose you have a business where many customers expect to be able to try the product before committing to buy it so the cost of paying for shipping for "free returns" has to be incorporated into the advertised price. Th…
If capatilism was working the way it was supposed to, the customer could choose between paying more up front, but having the option of a "free" return, or paying less upfront byt having to pay for a return (or not be able to return it).
And for that matter, the customer would have enough information to know the quality of the product before purchasing, but that is often not possible.
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#25I like the idea, but I'm not sure how enforceable it will be in practice. It seems like it would be relatively difficult to prove a company is using surveillance pricing, and companies may just accept the risk of paying a fine.
Subpoenas and whistleblowing are pretty good tools.
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#26> Republican Rep. Chris Richardson, an Elbert County Republican, argued that the bill is too broad and could regulate standard analytic usage in the workplace, such as a human resources software that recommends a pay band for employees based on performance. He does not think this is is just selling it further? Oh no, it might prohibit software automatically determining my wages, how could we even have a society if we…
How do you get from "pay band [...] based on performance" to "least they can pay me without quitting"?
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. The theory behind capitalism requires people to take into account what they know when making decisions. Suppose you have a business where many customers expect to be able to try the product before committing to buy it so the cost of paying for shipping for "free returns" has to be incorporated into the advertised price. Th…
If capatilism was working the way it was supposed to, the customer could choose between paying more up front, but having the option of a "free" return, or paying less upfront byt having to pay for a return (or not be able to return it). And for that matter, the customer would have enough information to know the quality of the product before purchasing, but that is often not possible.
Everybody knows the cows are not actually spheres. It's about how you deal with it.
If you try to sell "return insurance" then some customers don't buy it but end up wanting to return it anyway and then leave you a bad review for not having free returns. That costs you more than charging somewhat higher prices and having free returns, so that's what you do instead. But now efficiency requires some other mechanism of allowing the people who don't do excessive returns to pay a lower price.
Also, suppose you actually did sell return insurance. Then you notice that a subset of the customers who buy return insurance rarely use it, so you want to give them a discount to try to get more of their business.
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#28I like the idea, but I'm not sure how enforceable it will be in practice. It seems like it would be relatively difficult to prove a company is using surveillance pricing, and companies may just accept the risk of paying a fine.
It's actually not that hard to prove. For example, PSN now has dynamic pricing for their games which can vary quite wildly and all it takes is a small number of consumers with price differences to prove it. The same is true for grocery stores or whatever else.
Enforcing it is another question though and you're right that companies will likely just accept the fine. It's all the more reason why this sort of thing needs to aggressively be legislated against and denied.
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#29> Republican Rep. Chris Richardson, an Elbert County Republican, argued that the bill is too broad and could regulate standard analytic usage in the workplace, such as a human resources software that recommends a pay band for employees based on performance. He does not think this is is just selling it further? Oh no, it might prohibit software automatically determining my wages, how could we even have a society if we…
How do you get from "pay band [...] based on performance" to "least they can pay me without quitting"?
Why would corporate software be incentivized to recommend a pay band any higher than the least the employee would take? The incentives are not aligned
Re: Colorado House passes bill to limit surveillance pricing and wage setting
#30Sounds like the usual populism. I guess in practice people will route around the insanity.