Coolest thing on HN in at least a week. Thanks!
Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
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Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#22My favorite example of tool use in birds is this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYZnsO2ZgWo of a crow that actually bends a piece of wire to form a hook. There are some details about it here: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0808_020808_...
Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#23Ever heard of Anthropocentrism? Why would tool use be confined to humans? When a baby (or a cub) learns to control his/her eye muscles, or her/his hands; when a bird builds a nest, it's tool use. Tool use is simply an extension of learning how to use our bodily organs, nothing special about it, all living creatures do that.
Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#24I have owned a small Myers Parrot for about ten years. He is very clever in understanding his environment. Once he raised one wing over his head and lowered the other wing to make his shoulders narrow enough to walk between two obstacles. He also has a strange desire to explore dark closets - odd since he has poor night vision. I advise against anyone buying a Parrot unless they have a lot of free time. A Parrot will…
I find the "social" needs of animals very interesting. I own a rabbit and most of the time he doesn't like petting and will run if you want to catch him, but if you leave the room he will follow you and go to sleep in a hard to reach corner.
Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#25What I wonder is: why is this so relevant if birds have been building nests for quite a while yet? I do not get the great difference... And please do not mention the 'tool' word: a nest is something MUCH more complicated and abstract than a tool.
Unfortunately I don't have sources to cite or know enough about the topic to explain it eloquently but I know you're wrong. Tool use is far more abstract and requires much more intelligence. The animal has to recognize and understand the problem at hand, the fact that they can create a tool, and then the method of using that tool. Nesting is an evolutionary trait that has existed for a long time.
Depends on what you call 'intelligence': making a home for living is more intelligent than just picking a stone for playing, is it not?
Building for the future (you know, you do not build a nest with a couple of straws) means projecting oneself in the future: that is intelligence for me.
'I know you're wrong' is quite strong.
Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#26What I wonder is: why is this so relevant if birds have been building nests for quite a while yet? I do not get the great difference... And please do not mention the 'tool' word: a nest is something MUCH more complicated and abstract than a tool.
Not a biologist but my guess would be that nest building is more or less "hardcoded reproduction code (perfected over time)" and this case is one of seeing a problem, finding a tool to fix the problem.
The fact that it is 'hardcoded' does not diminish its value as 'intelligence'.
Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#27Behold the creative powers of boredom! The life of parrots in the wild is too eventful for them to bother with making tools :)
or in other words necessity is the mother of invention.
Or, more specifically in this case, captivity is the mother of invention. This reminds me of a video I saw recently about the inventions of prison inmates.
Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#28Somewhat related is the crow machine. It trains crows to collect and deposit money in exchange for a treat: http://www.josh.is/crow-machine/
Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#29My favorite example of tool use in birds is this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYZnsO2ZgWo of a crow that actually bends a piece of wire to form a hook. There are some details about it here: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0808_020808_...
I don't feel like opening up that video now but I believe it is from a documentary that also showed that crows are capable of grabbing one tool (a short stick) in order to reach ANOTHER tool (a longer stick) which finally helped the crow reach the food. They also showed how crows are able to remember faces and also transfer the knowledge of which face to be wary of to their young. Really fascinating stuff.
Re: Parrot in captivity manufactures tools, something not seen in the wild
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a biologist but my guess would be that nest building is more or less "hardcoded reproduction code (perfected over time)" and this case is one of seeing a problem, finding a tool to fix the problem.
The fact that it is 'hardcoded' does not diminish its value as 'intelligence'.
Yes, it does. If it is 'hardcoded', then the intelligence lies in whatever 'hardcoded' it, not in the entity following the 'hardcoding'. Genetic algorithms have a certain amount of intelligence, although slow and clumsy. The fact that the world's biggest genetic algorithm* can program a spider to build an elegant solution does not mean the spider itself is intelligent.
* If you treat the algorithm for spiders and beetles as the same... I strongly suspect that a significant portion of the algorithm is actually implemented within the genes. For example, control genes massively amplify the effect of small genetic changes, allowing creatures using them to evolve faster than those without.