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Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

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Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#21

Post by ondromih »

trashcluster wrote: post #4
fyrn_ wrote: post #2

Probably would be a good idea to include at least a single sentence somewhere near the top explaining what the heck a glass fish is.

A java framework, like Springboot

In a way, yes, GlassFish is a Java framework. Although also much more.

It allows running and manage applications on a server, which provides resources to the applications. And it also allows building standalone Java applications, with the server embedded in it, in a way that you would expect from a framework.

On top of that, it provides standard Jakarta EE APIs, so your applications don't need GlassFish, you can run them on other servers too. Or you can easily migrte from other servers and frameworks to GlassFish if you like it more. And you can learn Jakarta EE APIs even before you will use GlassFish, or hire somebody who already knows it even though they never used GlassFish.

Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#22

Post by ondromih »

sgt wrote: post #7

Unfortunately the name Glassfish has been pretty tainted by now. If you say your platform is based on Glassfish they'll automatically assume you're an old donkey not up to date on latest Java technologies like Spring Boot.

That's what the article is trying to deflect, isn't it?

Many people rely on vibes from the past instead of updating their knowledge with the current info. It's true that some companies in the past attempted to taint GlassFish to promote their alternative products. And there was nobody to defend GlassFish and keep it up to date.

This is different now, with GlassFish at the Eclipse Foundation, the OmniFish company behind it and providing enterprise guarantees, and GlassFish itself modernizing with fast startup, runnable JAR, support for latest Java and Jakarta EE, Jakarta Data and NoSQL databases.

Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#23

Post by ondromih »

zvqcMMV6Zcr wrote: post #5

Why would you compare Eclipse GlassFish instead to Payara or Wildfly/JBoss? Anyway, that bickering between JEE application server vendors is what caused Spring to win. It doesn't matter it has update churn that is almost as bad as in JS ecosystem, just the fact you don't have to think about AS helped adoption. Well that and significantly easier testing. And Spring Data with generating queries from method names. And y…

People like simple life with as few choices they have to make as possible, right? It's now very simple to start a Java project, when the obvious choice is Spring and everybody uses it.

But is it what everybody really wants? To have a single choice? GlassFish provides a choice for those that don't want to become stuck with the "only" option that everybody uses. Java itself provides a lot of options - Oracle JDK, Azul JDK, Corretto JDK and many others. And that's a good thing. Options in frameworks and application servers are a good thing too. The best option wins. Except, there's rarely the best option for every case. And it's good to have all the other options too, in case the most popular option isn't a good one for you.

Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#24

Post by boomskats »

pjmlp wrote: post #16
zvqcMMV6Zcr wrote: post #5

Why would you compare Eclipse GlassFish instead to Payara or Wildfly/JBoss? Anyway, that bickering between JEE application server vendors is what caused Spring to win. It doesn't matter it has update churn that is almost as bad as in JS ecosystem, just the fact you don't have to think about AS helped adoption. Well that and significantly easier testing. And Spring Data with generating queries from method names. And y…

Yet the WebAssembly bros are into replicating application servers with Kubernetes pods running WebAssembly containers, go figure.

I know right? Who wants sub-millisecond readiness, sub-second image replication and a measly couple of megs worth of memory alloc per service when everyone can just get themselves a 2 gig springboot heap by default?

FWIW Wasm is hitting kubernetes because that's what customers are explicitly asking for, and the majority of enterprise Wasm-on-k8s afopters are doing so precisely because they want to eradicate Spring bloat and the associated supply chain risks from their engineering orgs.

Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#26

Post by chasd00 »

gertrunde wrote: post #10
trashcluster wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A java framework, like Springboot

er... surely it's a Java application server? (i.e. in the same space as Jboss/Wildfly, WebSphere, etc) Historically, it was also the reference implementation application server for J2EE.

I thought that was Tomcat or was Tomcat just the servlet reference implementation, i can't remember. App servers like Glassfish were what operations people used before the concept of "devops". Developers wrote the code and admins/ops deployed the code on app servers like Glassfish. Devops was supposed to put developers in charge of the whole stack but every enterprise i've seen have a dedicated devops team that manages AWS/Azure/GCP and separate developer teams who write the code. So it's pretty much the same it's always been ironically.

Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#27

Post by sgt »

ondromih wrote: post #22
sgt wrote: post #7

Unfortunately the name Glassfish has been pretty tainted by now. If you say your platform is based on Glassfish they'll automatically assume you're an old donkey not up to date on latest Java technologies like Spring Boot.

That's what the article is trying to deflect, isn't it? Many people rely on vibes from the past instead of updating their knowledge with the current info. It's true that some companies in the past attempted to taint GlassFish to promote their alternative products. And there was nobody to defend GlassFish and keep it up to date. This is different now, with GlassFish at the Eclipse Foundation, the OmniFish company behi…

Fair enough. If OmniFish can properly support it and help it continuously develop it will have potential for adoption by even those using Spring.

Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#28

Post by reactordev »

sgt wrote: post #7

Unfortunately the name Glassfish has been pretty tainted by now. If you say your platform is based on Glassfish they'll automatically assume you're an old donkey not up to date on latest Java technologies like Spring Boot.

>”latest Java technologies like Spring Boot.”

Which are already old enough to drive… latest my ass.

Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#29

Post by henk53 »

chasd00 wrote: post #26
gertrunde wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

er... surely it's a Java application server? (i.e. in the same space as Jboss/Wildfly, WebSphere, etc) Historically, it was also the reference implementation application server for J2EE.

I thought that was Tomcat or was Tomcat just the servlet reference implementation, i can't remember. App servers like Glassfish were what operations people used before the concept of "devops". Developers wrote the code and admins/ops deployed the code on app servers like Glassfish. Devops was supposed to put developers in charge of the whole stack but every enterprise i've seen have a dedicated devops team that manag…

> I thought that was Tomcat or was Tomcat just the servlet reference implementation

Tomcat itself has never been an official reference implementation of anything.

Tomcat implements various Jakarta EE APIs, most centrallly Servlet indeed, but also JSP (Jakarta Pages) and JSTL (Jakarta Tags), WebSockets and Jakarta Authentication.

The initial Tomcat was donated to Apache, then used back in GlassFish. GlassFish WAS the reference implementation of Servlet (among others), so indirectly Tomcat kinda was the reference implementation indeed. But just a fork of its code via GlassFish.

Re: Eclipse GlassFish: This Isn't Your Father's GlassFish

#30

Post by sgt »

reactordev wrote: post #28
sgt wrote: post #7

Unfortunately the name Glassfish has been pretty tainted by now. If you say your platform is based on Glassfish they'll automatically assume you're an old donkey not up to date on latest Java technologies like Spring Boot.

>”latest Java technologies like Spring Boot.” Which are already old enough to drive… latest my ass.

I hear you, but there's genuine excitement still about Spring Boot and related technologies. See [1] Spring Cloud.

[1]https://spring.io/projects/spring-cloud

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