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The case for becoming a manager

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Re: The case for becoming a manager

#21

Post by gfody »

theevilsharpie wrote: post #13
gfody wrote: post #11

I hate the term "individual contributor" how else does anyone contribute but individually

A lot of professions have terms of art that can be interpreted incorrectly or be viewed as odd by laymen. "Individual contributor" is no different. Maybe it sounds weird to you, but it's a well-understood term in the management profession.

it's a bullshit term because a managers contributions are also individual and the kind of contributions (implied to come from non-individual contributors) also come from individual contributors

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#22

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

I quite like this article (despite some signs of AI writing in it). It reflects my own experience of transitioning to management roles.

The first time I managed a team I designed a whole solution for the team to implement, and they were like "Are we just your typists?!! Why don't you let us do that?". They were right; I stepped back and shared goals and direction with them instead from that point. It's hard to step away from how you did things before and give trust to others to do a good job.

The other thing they highlighted also resonated - if you become a manager of people who were formally your team mates, it alters your relationships with them. I remember feeling quite depressed when people no longer joked around with me in the same way they used to, and I felt a bit isolated. Took me a while to understand the shift in dynamics and not take it personally.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#23

Post by rmnclmnt »

Is this still a debate? It all depends on personal goal/wishes and constraints from your working contrxt (e.g company size, country of residence).

Take France with medium to large size companies: ICs (whatever the seniority) are usually paid less and have a hard time evolving so they are naturally encouraged to take on management roles by their hierarchy. In some other contexts, ICs may have more leverage thus not wanting to go the management route and that’s okay.

Anyway, in the next 5 to 10 years this all might change for better or worse so…

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#24

Post by gfody »

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #15
crjohns648 wrote: post #5

I think this article does a great job at conveying the new skills you need from a work-completing perspective as a manager, but there's another aspect that is much more subtle and long-term: being a guide for other people's careers. I've seen dozens of people start managing, stop managing, change roles (including myself), etc, and there are two extremes that stand out: 1. Management out of necessity. They became a ma…

Perhaps these two roles shouldn't be conflated into a single position?

it’s like the difference between management and leadership though the latter doesn’t come exclusively from the former

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#26

Post by jjav »

ThalesX wrote: post #9
Swizec wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's it. He's a colleague. Not a mentor You're missing a very important aspect of how managers impact your career: Opportunities. The manager's job is to find you impactful work that a) gets you promoted and b) challenges you in the ways you want or need to grow.

Am I missing this, or are you assuming that I am incapable of finding opportunities myself, within or without the organization that the manager is beholden to? I honestly can't understand this framing, of the manager's job as a sort of opportunity finder for those 'under' them, and somehow being more impactful at this than the individuals themselves. I'll give you this, some people need to be managed and for some rea…

> Am I missing this, or are you assuming that I am incapable of finding opportunities myself

Somewhat, yes. It has nothing to do with you. Some opportunities you can create yourself, go for it. Other opportunities only arise in the context of leadership meetings you are not a part of (by definition, if you're not the manager). Having a manager in those meeting push for your opportunities is priceless.

Having had many managers who don't do this for me and a few that do, definitely want the second kind.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#27

Post by LeoDaVibeci »

Titles are such gross oversimplifications, I wonder if "manager" even holds much meaning anymore?

If you look at the IC track of the engineering ladder at a big tech company, the "Distinguished/Principal Engineer" is technically an IC role, but they have so much organization leadership responsibility that it feels wrong to say they aren't doing high level "management" as part of their role.

I have trouble wrapping my head around the exact distinction of manager vs IC the higher up the engineering ladder you go.

I imagine as a Principal Engineer you are essentially directing other tech leaders, even though you don't directly perform performance reviews on them? (that's for the SVP Eng?)

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#28

Post by jjav »

Swizec wrote: post #7
ThalesX wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only career goals I want my manager to be responsible for is to not be in my way. I tinkered with my PC since I was young without my manager. I decided to go to Computer Science without my manager. I got my degree without my manager. I got my first job without my manager. I practiced lifelong learning without my manager. I ran my own company without my manager. I handled clients without my manager. I managed to f…

> That's it. He's a colleague. Not a mentor You're missing a very important aspect of how managers impact your career: Opportunities. The manager's job is to find you impactful work that a) gets you promoted and b) challenges you in the ways you want or need to grow.

> You're missing a very important aspect of how managers impact your career: Opportunities.

Indeed! In basketball terms, a manager should be the MVP in Assists. They don't score directly but they set up plays for you so you can succeed. It's then up to the employee to act on it and score.

The best managers I've had are of this type.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#29

Post by LeoDaVibeci »

crjohns648 wrote: post #5

I think this article does a great job at conveying the new skills you need from a work-completing perspective as a manager, but there's another aspect that is much more subtle and long-term: being a guide for other people's careers. I've seen dozens of people start managing, stop managing, change roles (including myself), etc, and there are two extremes that stand out: 1. Management out of necessity. They became a ma…

As another commenter mentioned, the first role is Vision + Leadership, and the second role is more like Support + Mentorship.

Personally I would love do the first, and the second one feels more like HR should do. Of course, HR doesn't have the specialization needed for that, but maybe they should expand into that? HRO - Human Resource Optimization.

Re: The case for becoming a manager

#30

Post by bob1029 »

flockonus wrote: post #17

My motivation was quite different, and i'd like to encourage more people to consider the same. Often times narcissistic power grabbing (often technically incompetent) engineers become managers, like it was the case a previous team I've worked at and it was quite penalizing to the whole team. I've realized that either i can be the one managing and try to do good, or be at the mercy of another manager; chose the first.

This is what taught me to sublimate my own ego. Overcoming the wickedness of others with patient, meditative calm can be an incredible experience. It just takes longer than a business day to play out. You've gotta think across much grander time scales. 3 steps ahead, at minimum, at all times. Burn these people out of your team. Take charge and stay focused on the customer. It often takes non technical people a little bit longer to lock onto complex problems and downstream consequences. It's taken me nearly 2 years to deal with one bad hire. All I can fantasize about is being in a position to never hire that kind of person again. The destruction some people can cause in a business is unthinkable to those who haven't seen it yet. I didn't believe these people existed until it was way too late.

I still prefer to solve technology problems, but I see a bigger and more important mission out there. Keeping the team happy and aligned on the customer is much more rewarding overall. I'd rather 5% dev time in paradise than 95% dev time in hell.

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