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American aviation is near collapse?

theatlantic.com

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Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#21

Post by wagwang »

convolvatron wrote: post #11
wagwang wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's how I would describe using immigration to address labor shortages

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong in using immigration to address labor shortages. however, not having an official policy, such a labor visa with clearly defined rules, combined with a stable population of 'illegals' that don't have the same labor protections, is and was not really a fair or sustainable situation.

It's inherently unfair because its used to drive down wages of the lower classes. Outside of highly skilled work that cannot be sourced from within the country that is critical for nation security, the moral response is to just pay the workers more.

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#22

Post by ryandrake »

SecretDreams wrote: post #16
convolvatron wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong in using immigration to address labor shortages. however, not having an official policy, such a labor visa with clearly defined rules, combined with a stable population of 'illegals' that don't have the same labor protections, is and was not really a fair or sustainable situation.

Agreed. Immigration for a labour shortage is a tale as old as time. Mass migration was very common post WW1/2 Europe. People went where there were jobs and labour shortages. Policy around this type of thing is important. My post is more about the general dysfunction and solution schemes we see in some governments. I think having the ICE example might bring about some bots and trolls, though. I don't care for the ICE…

The US policy seems pretty clear: Allow companies who employ undocumented workers to benefit and profit from it, while making sure only the individual workers shoulder the criminal and livelihood risks.

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#23

Post by davidcollantes »

ryandrake wrote: post #18

Just a standard warning to readers: when you use an archive.ph (or other archive.today) link, you risk your computer's resources being used to participate in a DDOS against another web site, as reported/discussed recently on HN[1]. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46624740

Got a link to the entry?

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#24

Post by HPsquared »

KK7NIL wrote: post #20
HPsquared wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Collapse" isn't within the statistical distribution though, so you'd still to apply judgement in any case. I suppose it's a word with many definitions.

> "Collapse" isn't within the statistical distribution though Uh? Maybe you could explain what you mean by this a bit more.

1. It's not a rigorously defined term.

2. "System collapse" would be unexplored territory, so how would statistical analysis be able to infer when it occurs?

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#25

Post by Someone1234 »

A lot of core services in the US are near collapse, because society focuses on short-term value extraction, over long term success. If you look at the US's history, there was a much better balance between the two (with the core being seen as a lever towards future wealth).

You see this in education, infrastructure, public health, scientific research, housing, and energy. All foundational systems of a society, which compound the value of everything else, but they aren't immediate profit centers so kick the ball down the road.

It is an attitude problem first and foremost; and I'm not sure how you fix that.

PS - This also impacts private enterprise, like corporations. Enshittify their current offerings for the next quarter bump but ruin their brand reputation/long-term viability.

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#26

Post by nimbius »

it is a perfect storm:

- deregulation of airlines in the 1980s led to rampant consolidation of routes and SPOF hubs that only work for revenue purposes and offer no real resilience in traffic planning. over-subscription of flights and lack of any real competition compounds this issue.

- climate change and global warming increasingly exacerbate severe weather conditions that ground aircraft and incur delays or cancellations in an already fragile system

- reagan-era policy hostile toward air traffic control labor unions that once checked the excesses of capital resulted in understaffing issues for more than two decades later. poor regulation of working hours, outmoded systems, and wage stagnation has further stressed the ATC system.

- the partial government shutdown has caused massive delays and cancellations of flights as the artifice of security theater begins to break down under its own political morass.

the solution is reform and regulation through policy change and investment. this is not possible in late stage capitalism (Streeck, 2016.)

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#27

Post by ryandrake »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9
mikkupikku wrote: post #5

I'm not saying the article's thesis is wrong, much of it rings true to me, but we have very comprehensive data and statistics concerning air travel so I'm deeply unimpressed by this article instead hanging its argument on a hodgepodge list of incidents instead of digging into the data to get some proper numbers.

Well, a tired, overextended air traffic controller at LaGuardia just caused two pilots to die last night while landing. How many deaths would communicate "We have likely reached system failure"? I presume for some, it's going to have to be a few airframes worth of passengers unfortunately. There is a shortage of air traffic controllers. Those working are being pushed to failure. The system as a whole is degrading. Th…

Note also that they deliberately choke off the hiring funnel before they even get applicants, and deliberately dispose of experienced controllers. Air traffic controller applicants must be under 31 years old for initial hire. The mandatory retirement age is 56. Although there are limited exceptions to both rules.

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#28

Post by esafak »

Someone1234 wrote: post #25

A lot of core services in the US are near collapse, because society focuses on short-term value extraction, over long term success. If you look at the US's history, there was a much better balance between the two (with the core being seen as a lever towards future wealth). You see this in education, infrastructure, public health, scientific research, housing, and energy. All foundational systems of a society, which c…

Through the right incentives, like repealing quarterly reporting requirements. https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-sec-preparing-el...

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#29

Post by jasonmp85 »

ryandrake wrote: post #18

Just a standard warning to readers: when you use an archive.ph (or other archive.today) link, you risk your computer's resources being used to participate in a DDOS against another web site, as reported/discussed recently on HN[1]. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46624740

[dead]

Re: American aviation is near collapse?

#30

Post by ryandrake »

davidcollantes wrote: post #23
ryandrake wrote: post #18

Just a standard warning to readers: when you use an archive.ph (or other archive.today) link, you risk your computer's resources being used to participate in a DDOS against another web site, as reported/discussed recently on HN[1]. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46624740

Got a link to the entry?

Updated my reply with the initial story, but there have been followups on HN.
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