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How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

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Re: How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

#21

Post by sithadmin »

hattmall wrote: post #2

So shouldn't this really be something that could be opened sourced. I think I've seen a few write ups of people that did their own, but seems like a highly functional implementation could be democratized.

It’s been tried, with some success. Pretty sure I’ve seen a post here on HN from someone that DIy’d it end to end.

But it’s also something that’s not responsible to shortcut. Shifting teeth around too fast can result in permanent root damage and even loss of teeth. There was a whole cottage industry in the US for a while focused on under cutting Invisalign with a reverse-engineered product, but they often moved on accelerated treatment timelines that caused a not-insignificant amount of harm to patients, and cut corners on intake (DIY at home mold kits) that also contributed to problems. Pretty sure all of the companies doing this are basically dead now.

Re: How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

#23

Post by natpalmer1776 »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #8
hattmall wrote: post #2

So shouldn't this really be something that could be opened sourced. I think I've seen a few write ups of people that did their own, but seems like a highly functional implementation could be democratized.

It is definitely not that simple for a number of reasons. Yes, aligners and retainers in theory may be printed on some commercially available hardware. At your own risk, because you will be printing a medical device and you will need: 1. A treatment plan: simulated movement of teeth at every step, taking into account all forces. That’s specialized software or external lab service. 2. Precision. You put too much press…

How many of these risks and problems are exaggerated in scope and potential due to both a desire for a regulatory moat and a general fear of litigation in the medical space?

That is to say, how good is “good enough” when done at small-scale in developing nations or medically underserved communities?

Re: How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

#24

Post by toast0 »

doubled112 wrote: post #13
maccard wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s pretty wild. I got a mould taken with some sort of a putty .

I wear a night guard and have had them made both ways. The 3D camera was really neat. A little faster, and I didn’t once dry heave. I could watch the software and a 3D model slowly form of my mouth. Looked surprisingly user friendly. Missed areas were highlighted, for example.

> A little faster, and I didn’t once dry heave.

Dry heaving would have been great. I would regularly vomit from impressions. My orthodontist would just prepare two sets if impression trays, cause the first one was going to go in the medical waste bin.

Impressions for invisilign (when I did it, about a million years ago) weren't so bad though. Unfortunately invisilign resulted in an open bite for my molars, which I really should go back to an orthodontist to address, but I'd rather not.

Re: How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

#25

Post by porridgeraisin »

infinitewars wrote: post #20

Most teeth align themselves as kids age. This is almost never necessary.

Depends on diet.

If you keep them on soft food young, the jaw muscles don't get stimulated enough to grow so that the teeth that are coming out sit properly. Misalignment and opportunity for decay ensues.

If you give them decently hard food early on in life you solve most problems.

After that it can still happen but there's less chance.

Re: How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

#27

Post by BoorishBears »

natpalmer1776 wrote: post #23
ivan_gammel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely not that simple for a number of reasons. Yes, aligners and retainers in theory may be printed on some commercially available hardware. At your own risk, because you will be printing a medical device and you will need: 1. A treatment plan: simulated movement of teeth at every step, taking into account all forces. That’s specialized software or external lab service. 2. Precision. You put too much press…

How many of these risks and problems are exaggerated in scope and potential due to both a desire for a regulatory moat and a general fear of litigation in the medical space? That is to say, how good is “good enough” when done at small-scale in developing nations or medically underserved communities?

Smile Direct Club and co have shown its founded 100% in real risk of harm.

They were a company theoretically doing the same thing with still more resources than an average individual has, and ruined people's bites and teeth.

I don't think there's a good enough here

Re: How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

#28

Post by tombert »

Tangential, but I have sleep apnea. Fortunately I have it mild enough to get away with a mouthpiece instead of a CPAP (which is good anyway because I also have bruxism).

The mouthpiece works great and I would recommend everyone get tested for sleep apnea if your insurance covers it, but I have to admit that paying for it bothered me. Even with insurance covering some of it, it cost me about $600.

I know that there's a deceptively high amount of engineering required for these kinds of things, but it was very hard to wrap my head around paying $600 for what amounted to a couple pieces of clear plastic. I actually got them to send me the STL of the scan of my teeth, and some back of napkin math indicated that it would have cost me about fifteen cents of resin to print it out myself. Instead I'm paying about 4000x that price.

Obviously this is not apples to apples, I'm sure they're using different and/or better resin that what I have, and as I said there's probably engineering and fine-tuning for this, but even still it was not fun to pay for.

All the same, I sleep like 10x better, so I suppose that considering that $600 is a cheap price to pay.

Re: How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

#29

Post by jmalicki »

natpalmer1776 wrote: post #23
ivan_gammel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely not that simple for a number of reasons. Yes, aligners and retainers in theory may be printed on some commercially available hardware. At your own risk, because you will be printing a medical device and you will need: 1. A treatment plan: simulated movement of teeth at every step, taking into account all forces. That’s specialized software or external lab service. 2. Precision. You put too much press…

How many of these risks and problems are exaggerated in scope and potential due to both a desire for a regulatory moat and a general fear of litigation in the medical space? That is to say, how good is “good enough” when done at small-scale in developing nations or medically underserved communities?

These kinds of things can slowly move your bone structure over time. After all, that is their entire point. You don't want to accidentally mess up your teeth and jaw even more.

Re: How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers

#30

Post by jmalicki »

joe_mamba wrote: post #16
kube-system wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orthodontics is simply “making a retainer” the same way orthopedics is simply “putting screws in a leg”. The difficult part is not the manufacturing, but knowing how to do it properly so you don’t harm the patient.

>The difficult part is not the manufacturing, but knowing how to do it properly so you don’t harm the patient. And yet I read plenty of horror stories of bad orthodontic results. Ask me how I know. Went to 3 different orthodontist to fix what a bad orthodontist did to me when I was a kid, and each gave me a completely different treatment plan. I feel like being an orthodontist is just eyeballing and patching your way…

Given that, shouldn't you be even more concerned about people YOLOing it, if even highly trained orthodontists are regularly screwing this up?
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