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Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

politico.eu

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Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#21

Post by gus_massa »

canadiantim wrote: post #10
pjmlp wrote: post #3

Of course, the MBAs pushing for growth missed on physics class that it is impossible for everyone to growth expontentially.

Or biology class to learn that resources grow linearly (arithmetically) but populations grow geometrically (exponentially). So it is possible for everyone to grow exponentially, it's just not sustainable and generally leads to mass famine, disease or war.

Or a transition form exponential to sigmoid grow, if it's slow enough. I remember cases of exponential grow of bacteria in lakes that ends in a disaster, but an unchecked garden will get a lot of plants and tree grow but I think it will stabilize softly.

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#23

Post by Tepix »

baggy_trough wrote: post #18

Growth is what makes us rich enough to afford expensive environmental mitigation.

It hasn't worked with nuclear waste, has it?

It's not working for corals either. The rest of them will be dead in 10 or 15 years. And they are the ecosystem for 25% of the Ocean's species.

When is this expensive environmental mitigation going to turn the tide around?

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#24

Post by boxed »

pjmlp wrote: post #3

Of course, the MBAs pushing for growth missed on physics class that it is impossible for everyone to growth expontentially.

Obviously it's an S curve yes, but we are so far from living in an Ian M. Banks Culture novel that we don't have to worry for probably a million years. Anti-growth people are ideologues with bad imagination and some pseudo-religious hate of humanity driving their political trend.

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#25

Post by boringg »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #11
boringg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already destroyed all of their forest natural resources a long time ago. Maybe they are trying to warn north america of their own mistakes.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tree-cover-loss

Are you trying to argue that Europe hasn't decimated their forests?

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#26

Post by paganel »

pjmlp wrote: post #3

Of course, the MBAs pushing for growth missed on physics class that it is impossible for everyone to growth expontentially.

The opposite of what you’re saying was considered ludicrous and conspiracy theory-like until not long ago on forums like this one or on Reddit. Just go to almost any post involving Hans Rosling (especially just pre-2016, post-GFC but pre-Trump) and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#27

Post by boxed »

Tepix wrote: post #23
baggy_trough wrote: post #18

Growth is what makes us rich enough to afford expensive environmental mitigation.

It hasn't worked with nuclear waste, has it? It's not working for corals either. The rest of them will be dead in 10 or 15 years. And they are the ecosystem for 25% of the Ocean's species. When is this expensive environmental mitigation going to turn the tide around?

> It hasn't worked with nuclear waste, has it?

You mean the nuclear waste that we banned companies from using as nuclear fuel for modern reactors? I think you will find that regulation actually stopped us from solving this problem.

> It's not working for corals either.

Imagine if we had much more nuclear power so we didn't produce enormous amounts of CO2! The corals would be in a much better position.

The "environmental movement" has been an anti-nuclear power movement that doesn't care about the environment since the beginning sadly. They've managed to harm the environment more than all nuclear accidents by several orders of magnitude.

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#29

Post by selectodude »

boringg wrote: post #5
philipallstar wrote: post #2

> European Union members have signed off on a report that warns focusing on unchecked economic growth is contributing to the destruction of global biodiversity It would be good to know which members of the EU are currently experiencing unchecked economic growth.

They already destroyed all of their forest natural resources a long time ago. Maybe they are trying to warn north america of their own mistakes.

We stopped deforesting the US in 1920. We have more forest here than we did 100 years ago.

Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn

#30

Post by s_dev »

boringg wrote: post #5
philipallstar wrote: post #2

> European Union members have signed off on a report that warns focusing on unchecked economic growth is contributing to the destruction of global biodiversity It would be good to know which members of the EU are currently experiencing unchecked economic growth.

They already destroyed all of their forest natural resources a long time ago. Maybe they are trying to warn north america of their own mistakes.

This breaks my heart about Ireland. I concede it's not possible to reforest the entire Ireland and have a competitive dairy and beef industry but restoring some of our wetlands and forests should be a goal that's taken seriously. We're at the point of getting 'cheap' talk from politicians.

Ireland has the climate to support the entire island covered in Atlantic rain-forests. People already agree Ireland is a pretty country, can you imagine how glorious it would be to have rolling hills covered in trees.

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