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Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

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Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#21

Post by kbelder »

iberator wrote: post #7

Win for democracy and fair representation of the working class! Being Noble is like saying 'i used to have slaves(even if not, then feudalism was the de'facto slave system too!) and made profits from it' Such people are enemies of humanity and democracy and markets. I hope one day they all just go. King and his small family is fine btw. Cultural reason:)

It's not "I used to have slaves...", it's "My ancestors used to have slaves...".

Having a class of nobles is an embarrassment for a country, and they should have been kicked out of parliament a century ago. But don't attribute to the child the sins of the father; that's the same category of error that the concept of hereditary nobility falls into.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#23

Post by jfengel »

Chinjut wrote: post #12
theodric wrote: post #11

The point of the hereditary peerage was the same as the point of having a non-elected Senate. Now both will have been lost in the name of "democracy" - a system of government that constantly fails to do either what is the desire of the people OR what is truly in their interests. From here on out it'll just be whoever manages to connive their way into power through connections, payola, corruption, island meetups, and…

The Senate is, while not the whole story, a significant part of the reason the government constantly fails to do what is either the desire of the people or what's in their interests. I wouldn't lament losing the Senate.

The US Senate is designed to check and balance the House of Representatives. But that often puts the Congress as a whole in deadlock, meaning it can no longer balance the other two branches.

When they could get anything done they delegated a lot of power to the Executive. Which worked ok, but eventually a "unitary executive" appropriated even more power, and the Legislature is powerless to prevent it.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#24

Post by kbelder »

theodric wrote: post #11

The point of the hereditary peerage was the same as the point of having a non-elected Senate. Now both will have been lost in the name of "democracy" - a system of government that constantly fails to do either what is the desire of the people OR what is truly in their interests. From here on out it'll just be whoever manages to connive their way into power through connections, payola, corruption, island meetups, and…

How about a chamber populated by random lottery? Like jury duty?

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#25

Post by pkaodev »

theodric wrote: post #18
tartoran wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a hereditary system work any better? Plenty of monarchies based on heredity ran themselves into the ground.

It provides an additional check. Much like a monarch, a noble's interests are tied to the welfare of the country itself. Without the country, they're just a toff with some money and an overinflated sense of self-importance.

This is the most convincing argument for the house of lords/monarchy that I've ever heard. Going to be thinking about this for a while, thanks.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#26

Post by rvz »

mindwok wrote: post #20

British democracy and government is cool. It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution, it's this organic thing that they've stumbled towards over the last ~800 years with small changes like this one gradually evolving them into a modern liberal democracy.

> British democracy and government is cool.

Oh sweet summer child.

The government there does not care about you and will promise anything to get another 5 years in power despite causing the issues they promised to solve in the first place.

You are essentially voting in the same party to be in government and progress there moves in the hundreds of years; hence the riddance of the scam that is unelected hereditary nobles which it took more than 700 years to remove them.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#28

Post by taylorius »

tartoran wrote: post #15
theodric wrote: post #11

The point of the hereditary peerage was the same as the point of having a non-elected Senate. Now both will have been lost in the name of "democracy" - a system of government that constantly fails to do either what is the desire of the people OR what is truly in their interests. From here on out it'll just be whoever manages to connive their way into power through connections, payola, corruption, island meetups, and…

Why would a hereditary system work any better? Plenty of monarchies based on heredity ran themselves into the ground.

Heredity is only one of many flavours of cronyism.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#29

Post by dylan604 »

stvltvs wrote: post #17
dude250711 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, getting rid of nobility is how USSR lived happily ever after.

Getting rid of hereditary nobility has worked out pretty well for the USA.

Has it? By what metric are you using for that? Two Bush presidencies off the power of the senior patriarch. Current president comes from family wealth. Most of the oligarchs come from family wealth. It's not until the recent tech billionaires that became first generation oligarchs.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#30

Post by throwaway7783 »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

> The case of Peter Mandelson, who resigned from the Lords in February after revelations about his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, drew renewed attention to the upper chamber and the problem of lords behaving badly. But Mandelson wasn't a hereditary noble. His example is an argument for abolishing the House of Lords entirely (which I agree with in any case) but not specifically for ejecting her…

Does House of Lords have any real power today?
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