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Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

geohot.github.io

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Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#21

Post by georgehotz »

minmax2020 wrote: post #12

Can anyone explain the rent seeker paragraph? Which companies are playing 0 sum game and which are not? Are all big players not rent seekers?

Building tools and services to reduce hassle and friction for others is great. However, what often happens is that you end up creating and building a moat around that hassle. Think about how companies like TurboTax lobby the government to not build electronic tax filing stuff.

Cory Doctorow explains the dynamics well in Enshittification. First they turn against their users, then their business partners, then their employees. The layoffs you are seeing are just stage 3 enshittification. If you work at a company like this, my advice is to quit ASAP. At least then you leave on your own terms.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#22

Post by simianwords »

ramblerman wrote: post #11
FlyingSnake wrote: post #5

People keep rediscovering the Bhagavad Gita in new ways https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/2/47/

> You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. I have a hard time interpreting that as what geohotz is saying. If anything it seems to promote rent seekers by telling you - stick to your lane and don't complain. I.e. the caste system

the problem is that there's good stuff in here but expressed in such a compressed way that it can be misused and misread.

i completely agree with you and the post you are replying too. both are correct.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#23

Post by georgehotz »

franciscop wrote: post #17
minmax2020 wrote: post #12

Can anyone explain the rent seeker paragraph? Which companies are playing 0 sum game and which are not? Are all big players not rent seekers?

Do you think e.g. the AI/LLM boom is all rent seeking? Do you think there's no positive value for the world on the recently announced e.g. MacBook Neo and that it's purely a monopolistic activity? Those are 2 clear recent examples of big players making massive benefits for the world, and I'm okay if they get X% of that value as company valuation.

Not at all. OpenAI / Anthropic are producing tons of surplus value right now! Not to mention how great the Chinese open source LLMs are. And Apple's hardware division has always been fine.

Apple's 30% tax for payments in apps is the ultimate rent seeking example though. Want to install your own apps, lol you can't. And if big AI companies follow in the steps of Google/Facebook it's bad for everyone. Let's recognize it and prevent it from happening this time.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#24

Post by vintermann »

There are zero-sum games you can't realistically escape. They're really common. Credentials is a zero-sum game. Political power, influence of all sorts, are zero sum games: if you have more of it, someone else has less. Land ownership is basically zero sum, too.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#25

Post by austin-cheney »

keyle wrote: post #9

That was my contracting philosophy for 15 years. Create more value than what I cost, otherwise why are you paying me?

Yes, but I make it more precise into two points:

1. Build tools/libraries that empower superior execution performance. If you can execute faster than others you have more potential free time than them. This is a form of compound interest. I do this for myself but my output is not exclusive to myself.

2. Be operational. Create products that are always more durable than what is trendy, but when something does break return a resolution as rapidly as possible, provided excellent regression testing. Be constantly healthy, healing once injuries are found, and constantly aware of new injuries.

I find most people cannot do those two things. Most people cannot measure things and a great many people fear novelty.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#26

Post by simianwords »

georgehotz wrote: post #21
minmax2020 wrote: post #12

Can anyone explain the rent seeker paragraph? Which companies are playing 0 sum game and which are not? Are all big players not rent seekers?

Building tools and services to reduce hassle and friction for others is great. However, what often happens is that you end up creating and building a moat around that hassle. Think about how companies like TurboTax lobby the government to not build electronic tax filing stuff. Cory Doctorow explains the dynamics well in Enshittification. First they turn against their users, then their business partners, then their em…

i'm fairly certain Cory Doctorow does not understand the economics of Enshittification.

companies subsidise their products so that exploration of these products is more feasible due to lower initial costs for the end consumers. the initial consumers don't pay the full price but they are borne by the later consumers once the exploration is done and they have knowledge about that market and business.

Cory Doctorow also probably confuses democratisation and enshittifaction - its usually the case that products get cheaper by also marginally reducing the quality. we get cheap goods from China but that's not enshittification - that's just efficiency. as a consumer I'm happy I have the option of paying low prices for products.

i wouldn't take this person too seriously because it looks like they don't understand the larger picture

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#27

Post by energy123 »

vintermann wrote: post #24

There are zero-sum games you can't realistically escape. They're really common. Credentials is a zero-sum game. Political power, influence of all sorts, are zero sum games: if you have more of it, someone else has less. Land ownership is basically zero sum, too.

Most games are either negative-sum or positive-sum. Very few are zero-sum.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#28

Post by chunkyguy »

ramblerman wrote: post #11
FlyingSnake wrote: post #5

People keep rediscovering the Bhagavad Gita in new ways https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/2/47/

> You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. I have a hard time interpreting that as what geohotz is saying. If anything it seems to promote rent seekers by telling you - stick to your lane and don't complain. I.e. the caste system

You need to understand the context. The quote in Gita was to motivate the best warrior of the time at the battlefront facing opponents who were mainly his cousins and uncles.

In that context the quote is about performing the duties you were born to do without overthinking the consequences.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#29

Post by grensley »

vintermann wrote: post #24

There are zero-sum games you can't realistically escape. They're really common. Credentials is a zero-sum game. Political power, influence of all sorts, are zero sum games: if you have more of it, someone else has less. Land ownership is basically zero sum, too.

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