Hot take: only PMs need to code now. With Claude 4.6 Opus, the engineer skill set is no longer useful. Why are we hiring people with code writing ability when code writing ability has no value anymore?
My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
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Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Funny story: I work at Meta and posted a version of this internally in response the bizarre pressure and support for PMs landing prod diffs (the response was very positive FWIW).
which workplace group did you post it to?
I don't remember the exact name, but the one about AI productivity. It should be trivial to find my name from my handle, so just look at my profile.
Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#23Hot take: only PMs need to code now. With Claude 4.6 Opus, the engineer skill set is no longer useful. Why are we hiring people with code writing ability when code writing ability has no value anymore?
This is kind of like the reverse of the sister comment, which I agree with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47242699
The general point is that separating PM and eng doesn't make sense any longer. Which subsumes which is an interesting debate.
Your argument that 4.6 Opus makes the engineering skill set useless is totally false and maybe shows you haven't built anything complicated, but it is possible that Opus 5.2 will get there.
Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#24I remember this post. But I'm not sure what the future really entails and I suspect it'll be very company/culture dependent. In some companies, the engineers are very savvy and understand the business well. In others, it's the designers. Or sales. Ops. And of course Product Managers. You get the picture.
Whoever gets the business best (and in detail) will likely be the best builders. It's "intuition as evals" that really matters in the end. You think Software Engineers or Product Managers are replacing Quants at trading shops anytime soon? Nope.
Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#25> Fun!!!!! I noticed that AI evangelists really love to use word "fun" to describe anything they do with AI. Claw people particularly seem really love to use that word when answering what practical or useful they do with AI agents. It's always something absurdly trivial followed by "and it's just fun!" Don't really have any conclusion to this - just thought to share this observation.
Weird take. Coding is fun (and has been since before AI). And vibe coding is fun in an entirely different way.
What's weird about it? I'm not disputing that it might be fun for vibe coders. Just that they seem to really like using that particular word.
I love coding and it is fun for me. Vibe coding on the other hand - not fun at all. It feels to me like playing slots.
But then again, I never liked gambling.
Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#26> Fun!!!!! I noticed that AI evangelists really love to use word "fun" to describe anything they do with AI. Claw people particularly seem really love to use that word when answering what practical or useful they do with AI agents. It's always something absurdly trivial followed by "and it's just fun!" Don't really have any conclusion to this - just thought to share this observation.
Weird take. Coding is fun (and has been since before AI). And vibe coding is fun in an entirely different way.
Not weird at all. It's a common motte & bailey tactic, when your defence of the utility of something fails you can just say you do it for fun!!!!!!!.
Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#27I generally agree with the take. At the moment the models and agents aren’t good enough for someone who isn’t trained to build and maintain a production system. So as long as Eng isn’t significantly more bandwidth starved than PM, PM’s writing production code is not a high leverage activity.
The key issue right now is that the models falter in the last mile, and the last mile is where you need the training and experience to make sure the thing that lands is production quality.
At some point in the next few years I believe the roles will merge. I suspect that PMs will be forced to specialize towards a discipline (design, data science, engineering, etc.) while engineers will also start to see more of their responsibilities covering former PM territory. Most engineers will probably become closer to “product engineers”.
Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#28Hot take: only PMs need to code now. With Claude 4.6 Opus, the engineer skill set is no longer useful. Why are we hiring people with code writing ability when code writing ability has no value anymore?
> Why are we hiring people with code writing ability when code writing ability has no value anymore?
Is this sarcasm? You don't think there is any utility to understanding code?
Edit: you got me haha.
Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#29> Fun!!!!! I noticed that AI evangelists really love to use word "fun" to describe anything they do with AI. Claw people particularly seem really love to use that word when answering what practical or useful they do with AI agents. It's always something absurdly trivial followed by "and it's just fun!" Don't really have any conclusion to this - just thought to share this observation.
It's probably on the script they've been given
Re: My spicy take on vibe coding for PMs
#30Hot take: only PMs need to code now. With Claude 4.6 Opus, the engineer skill set is no longer useful. Why are we hiring people with code writing ability when code writing ability has no value anymore?
Buddy, when the engineering skill set is "no longer useful" you'll be living in a cardboard box at least a couple of years before that ever happens.