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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#21

Post by mark_l_watson »

I had the privilege of getting a working gig in Singapore for a small AI startup: such a well run country! There is a sense of community for helping by employing people who need jobs, the police were friendly and I felt very safe there (I like to take long walks either early in the morning or late at night and I felt very secure.)

Amazing what the people and government have achieved since the end of WW2. 100% respect for them.

A side comment: I enjoy listening to English language news from many countries around the world to get different viewpoints. News media from Singapore is very interesting, indeed!

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#22

Post by bluGill »

You know who they didn't interview: those who regret saving so much. Many of those people are dead and so the regret is something we can only apply on assumption that they would. I've known a few people who unexpectedly died before they hit retirement age. I've know a few people who retired and died suddenly. The vast majority of people in a "first world" country have an expected lifespan of about 80 - but there is a statistical curve and people start dieing in significant numbers at 65, while you are not an outlier until you make it to near 100 (though some exist).

You need to have some emergency savings. You should save for retirement somehow. If you can structure the above as insurance - and you can trust the insurance - (I know a few cases where the insurance type system went bankrupt and those with a "policy got nothing") that is best.

Once the above is taken care of though, you can't take it with you (at least in most religions) so spend it. Save enough, but not too much.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#23

Post by foxyv »

ecshafer wrote: post #20
InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

The CPF sounds pretty clever. It covers a major individual cost and need (retirement, medical, housing) instead of just throwing it into a tax. It makes the government money. This sounds like a win win kind of policy.

Why does the government get to decide when we retire?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#24

Post by drivebyhooting »

ecshafer wrote: post #20
InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

The CPF sounds pretty clever. It covers a major individual cost and need (retirement, medical, housing) instead of just throwing it into a tax. It makes the government money. This sounds like a win win kind of policy.

Except for the part where citizens get low returns and are forced to work their whole lives accruing minimal benefit.

How is being a serf win win?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#25

Post by bluGill »

irishcoffee wrote: post #14
vladms wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it more a cultural issue though? As a European, I think many Americans take pride and love to succeed "on their own" and accept they could "die trying" (exaggerating a bit, hence the quotes, but the feeling holds). Yes, the systems are amenable to acquiring more money, but I would claim that all that the richest need to do is to push the idea that "anyone can make it" - which was probably (more) true 50 years a…

Most Americans I know in my middling years are counting on the government to support them in their old age, quite the opposite that you’re exposed to via online manipulation hitpeices.

And the government will - sortof. It is enough to eat and keep the heat on. However if you want anything other than a basic simple life (travel, hobbies...) it is easy to run out of money.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#26

Post by DaedalusII »

InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

> It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens

the UK effectively does the same thing with DB schemes forced to buy Gilts

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#27

Post by danny_codes »

arolihas wrote: post #15
hnthrow0287345 wrote: post #8

>They’re failing to save because the world is rough, and their institutions don’t do enough to help them weather it. Well, America is rough. It turned on hardcore capitalism mode for itself because a significant portion of its population wants to try and solo socioeconomic hardships and hates any one who doesn't want the same challenge. But not to just blame the voter, lots of money is spent for setting up systems to…

Like half of our budget goes to welfare (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Income Security, etc). https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/budget_function

And yet that GINI keeps rising and cost of living outpaces inflation over the past 40 years in housing, healthcare, and education. If you are bottom quintile, maybe bottom 2, you are poorer now than 40 years ago on average. Recent policy changes seek to drop the third quintile as well.

America is designed for rich people

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#28

Post by finolex1 »

mothballed wrote: post #4

Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing which even the better off citizens take advantage of in Singapore (maybe even disproportionately so since there can be a long wait to get in, you are older and more settled at that point). Immigrants that get milked dry and go broke and jobless during a shock are booted fro…

How is that different from the US? Immigrants also get booted here if they lose their job. They also pay social security, Medicare, and other taxes but usually don't get the benefits unless they stay here for long enough and get a green card.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#29

Post by paxys »

foxyv wrote: post #23
ecshafer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CPF sounds pretty clever. It covers a major individual cost and need (retirement, medical, housing) instead of just throwing it into a tax. It makes the government money. This sounds like a win win kind of policy.

Why does the government get to decide when we retire?

You can retire whenever you want. The government decides when to start funding it.

As for why - the same reason why they get to decide what side of the road you drive on and what laws you follow. They rule the patch of land you were born on, and if you don't like it you can either participate in the system (assuming it's a democracy) or leave.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#30

Post by readthenotes1 »

"In Singapore, people who report never putting off difficult things are more likely to express saving regret than those who sometimes do."

That seems like what they should have been looking at re procrastination--conscientiousness.

I am not at all surprised that people who Take Care of Business lament not doing a better job (saving) and people who YOLO don't as much.

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