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America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

governance.fyi

21–30 of 349 posts

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#21

I don't understand why we don't just ban private equity. Seems like zero value-add to the actual real economy.

It'd be difficult to ban what we commonly describe as private equity (a.k.a. PE firms) without banning the private (a.k.a. random people) from being able to hold equity. Someone smart might be able to ban the kind of investment vehicles that have become the bane of modern productivity but we do still need some mechanism to allow investment.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#22
post #14

I don't understand why we don't just ban private equity. Seems like zero value-add to the actual real economy.

Ban companies from owning other companies? How would that work exactly? Private equity is a convenient whipping boy for ignorant, low-information HN users who don't understand the basics of how finance works. You can certainly find examples of destructive or unethical behavior if you dig deep enough. What you don't see in the news are all the cases where PE saved companies that would have otherwise gone bankrupt.

You, presumably, have examples of these cases. Could you show them to us, please? (Given your understanding of the evidence available to us "ignorant, low-information HN users", you know you're making a bold claim, which creates a corresponding burden of proof.)

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has happened many times throughout the 20th century. It requires mass fear so many people withdraw at the same time.

Pretty sure the first ETF was from around 1993, so I'm not sure how it is possible to happen "many times throughout the 20th century"

Index crashes have happened many times in the 20th and 21st centuries. The fact that index ETFs didn't exist for most of that period isn't relevant. If they had existed they would've crashed because they follow indices.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#24
> Larry Summers warned against “moral hazard lectures” and demanded SVB depositors be made whole immediately in 2023, months after calling student loan relief inflationary and unfair. Moral hazard for borrowers, bailouts for banks. Not lost on the public.

I can't believe I'm about to say something that could be construed as a defense of Larry Summers, but here goes: bank depositors are not engaging in risky behavior, they are putting cash in a bank. SVB did not get bailed out, it failed.

And as some of who supports the student loan forgiveness, yes, it is slightly inflationary but I think the benefits out weigh the inflationary effects.

Combine this with the "need" for nuclear (a perfectly cromulent but excessively expensive power source which has cheaper zero-carbon options), in the first paragraph, these comments that are not about the main topic severely undermine my ability to trust the rest of the essay.

The lesson to myself is to be narrow when I write, so as not to bring in a bunch of other positions that also need to be defended.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has happened many times throughout the 20th century. It requires mass fear so many people withdraw at the same time.

Pretty sure the first ETF was from around 1993, so I'm not sure how it is possible to happen "many times throughout the 20th century"

ETFs are a convenience tool for buying a bundle of assets. those assets exist independently. Other ways of owning bundles of assets existed before.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#26
post #3

I do wonder when some unforeseen 2008 like crash someone crashes ETFs. I can't really see how it would happen and that I suppose is part of the fun.

I invite you to watch Mike Green videos. In short, the current market rely on inflow of money to substain itself. P/E ratio can't increase forever. There will be a tipping point and if most of the money is invested based on an algorithm, it can unravel rapidly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkL4oz8iEg4

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#27
post #4

CalPers, the largest public employee retirement system in the US was not getting the kind of returns that they needed. They were restricted from purchasing stocks in certain industries, such as oil, weapons, etc.. However, they recently switched to investing in private equity funds and now they are getting much better returns, without all the pesky moral issues involved with it.

>they recently switched to investing in private equity funds

That's not recent at all. They've, for a long time, had large allocations to PE funds.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#28

I don't understand why we don't just ban private equity. Seems like zero value-add to the actual real economy.

Banning people from owning business? This is just a boogie man media term. There are good owners/investors and bad.

Private Equity doesn’t “own” business in the sense most people understand it.

PE is finalisation of business, its ownership is far more similar to a mortgagee than an owner in every sense of the word.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private equity is capitalism. That's the capitalism part of the economy.

Im gonna speculate they were referring to the part of private equity where you buy businesses to load them up with debt to buy more businesses ad nauseum

I have no idea why leveraged buyouts are legal. What a bizarre mechanism for acquisition that feels so easy to just shut down with a relatively simple rule.

Restricting a previously purchased business from taking out debt feels harder to regulate, but someone smart could probably figure out a few good rules to stop the majority of abuses.

Re: America's pensions can't beat Vanguard but they can close a hospital

#30
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban companies from owning other companies? How would that work exactly? Private equity is a convenient whipping boy for ignorant, low-information HN users who don't understand the basics of how finance works. You can certainly find examples of destructive or unethical behavior if you dig deep enough. What you don't see in the news are all the cases where PE saved companies that would have otherwise gone bankrupt.

You, presumably, have examples of these cases. Could you show them to us, please? (Given your understanding of the evidence available to us "ignorant, low-information HN users", you know you're making a bold claim, which creates a corresponding burden of proof.)

Example: almost every housing development.
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