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Technocracy 2.0

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Re: Technocracy 2.0

#21

Post by MisterTea »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #10

It could also be simple. This looks like a bunch of very high profile people in a fast changing environment, just doing their best not to become targets, and helping consolidate power is a side effect. The time will come when it’s rational for powerful people to make a stand - but that time has not yet arrived. According to the pattern, society has to go through a dark time first. Probably so there’s something to con…

> The time will come when it’s rational for powerful people to make a stand -

Stand for what? They all seem to gain from this so I am not sure where your logic is coming from.

> According to the pattern, society has to go through a dark time first.

This sounds like a stereotypical hollywood story and not an actual thoughtful response to what is actually going on.

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#22

Post by pixelready »

leggerss wrote: post #12

Something that strikes me every time I encounter SV Rationalism presented this way is the self-annihilation of it: tastes and preferences are to be optimized out as cognitive biases, grey uniforms mandated in lieu of individual expression (fashion). The god they're sacrificed to? “Technological progress" I lived in SF for a few years and found the tech community's disinterest in art to border on allergy. It was as if…

There’s really two types of people that tend to be drawn to libertarianism at some point: humanists and narcissists.

Those who are fundamentally humanist want to tear down systems of oppression because it pains them to see their fellow humans abused and brought low by corrupt laws and regulations. They (perhaps naively) imagine that if the system was dismantled or at least shrunk to minimum size, basic human decency will step in to fill the vacuum and people will thrive. Folks like Penn Gillette are the face of this group.

The narcissists are drawn to the movement because they feel like “if only everyone would get out of my way, I can do GREAT THINGS™ “. They like ideas like social Darwinism because they are already privileged enough to not be worried about losing in a survival of the fittest contest, and don’t tend to concern themselves with the second order effects of dismantling the system because it is simply an immoral impediment to their greatness. Peter Thiel and folks like him are the face of this group. This is largely the strain that has taken root in SV.

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#23

Post by servo_sausage »

leggerss wrote: post #12

Something that strikes me every time I encounter SV Rationalism presented this way is the self-annihilation of it: tastes and preferences are to be optimized out as cognitive biases, grey uniforms mandated in lieu of individual expression (fashion). The god they're sacrificed to? “Technological progress" I lived in SF for a few years and found the tech community's disinterest in art to border on allergy. It was as if…

Libertarianism doesn't mesh well with reality; the government doing less is part of it, but it also requires a way for people to efficiently protect their property.

So you get to a point where mass surveillance is justified by the anti-crime angle; there is no contradiction, libertarianism logic where you can live and let live requires no crime...

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#24

Post by like_any_other »

leggerss wrote: post #12

Something that strikes me every time I encounter SV Rationalism presented this way is the self-annihilation of it: tastes and preferences are to be optimized out as cognitive biases, grey uniforms mandated in lieu of individual expression (fashion). The god they're sacrificed to? “Technological progress" I lived in SF for a few years and found the tech community's disinterest in art to border on allergy. It was as if…

> I ask myself every time I hear that Thiel is a "libertarian" _while also_ being the founder of the biggest surveillance dragnet ever created: what about surveillance is libertarian?

Surveillance does not directly violate the non-aggression principle, and a myopic adherence to minimal principles without any consideration to where they lead is the central feature of libertarianism.

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#25

Post by direwolf20 »

jongjong wrote: post #18

This is like communism in the sense that it's sold as one thing, but serves another purpose for a different set of people than those it was marketed to. Having worked as a software engineer in the industry for almost 15 years, my experience is that the leading (elite) proponents of this philosophy don't really care about tech or innovation; they only care to the extent that they control the innovation. Any innovation…

"Every accusation is a confession" they say

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#26

Post by servo_sausage »

pixelready wrote: post #22
leggerss wrote: post #12

Something that strikes me every time I encounter SV Rationalism presented this way is the self-annihilation of it: tastes and preferences are to be optimized out as cognitive biases, grey uniforms mandated in lieu of individual expression (fashion). The god they're sacrificed to? “Technological progress" I lived in SF for a few years and found the tech community's disinterest in art to border on allergy. It was as if…

There’s really two types of people that tend to be drawn to libertarianism at some point: humanists and narcissists. Those who are fundamentally humanist want to tear down systems of oppression because it pains them to see their fellow humans abused and brought low by corrupt laws and regulations. They (perhaps naively) imagine that if the system was dismantled or at least shrunk to minimum size, basic human decency…

I see a whole lot more that end up at libertarianism as almost the default answer to "what philosophy most emphasis less government".

It's a generational thing I think, you see public money being spent on junk, and laws used to entrench and make competition hard; and you think "why do we want the government to do these things at all?". And if you look at common ideas around 20 years ago, the default answer was libertarianism.

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#27

Post by cadamsdotcom »

MisterTea wrote: post #21
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #10

It could also be simple. This looks like a bunch of very high profile people in a fast changing environment, just doing their best not to become targets, and helping consolidate power is a side effect. The time will come when it’s rational for powerful people to make a stand - but that time has not yet arrived. According to the pattern, society has to go through a dark time first. Probably so there’s something to con…

> The time will come when it’s rational for powerful people to make a stand - Stand for what? They all seem to gain from this so I am not sure where your logic is coming from. > According to the pattern, society has to go through a dark time first. This sounds like a stereotypical hollywood story and not an actual thoughtful response to what is actually going on.

It’s a stereotype for a reason..

People need to see how bad it can get before they’ll care.

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#28

Post by HappySweeney »

pixelready wrote: post #22
leggerss wrote: post #12

Something that strikes me every time I encounter SV Rationalism presented this way is the self-annihilation of it: tastes and preferences are to be optimized out as cognitive biases, grey uniforms mandated in lieu of individual expression (fashion). The god they're sacrificed to? “Technological progress" I lived in SF for a few years and found the tech community's disinterest in art to border on allergy. It was as if…

There’s really two types of people that tend to be drawn to libertarianism at some point: humanists and narcissists. Those who are fundamentally humanist want to tear down systems of oppression because it pains them to see their fellow humans abused and brought low by corrupt laws and regulations. They (perhaps naively) imagine that if the system was dismantled or at least shrunk to minimum size, basic human decency…

fwiw Penn Gillette no longer calls himself a libertarian.

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#29

Post by keybored »

Technocracy is fascinating because the ideology is either an intentional obfuscation about what politics is at its core, or an ideology for well-educated and absolutely politically illiterate people.

“Don’t make this political.” See, right there? That’s the entire shtick. The negation of the political. Repeat that very political mantra until it takes hold. Until the political philosophy of not-politics has won.

Politics is conflicts of interests between persons and groups. A political problem is a people problem. A technical problem has a technical and objective solution. Fifty different interests does not have a technical solution.

Or does it? Everything is dynamic, and one person’s supposed technical problem is a political problem for another one. But mix the two together? Then it becomes a political problem unless the first one manages to dominate the other.

Re: Technocracy 2.0

#30

Post by direwolf20 »

throwway120385 wrote: post #16
nahuel0x wrote: post #9

Technocracy had both socialist proponents like Charles Steinmetz and also anti-communists racists/fascists like Joshua Haldeman (Elon Musk grandfather). In some ways technocracy is the acknowledging of the necessity of economy planning to transcend capitalism but without taking into account class struggle. That way, it can be seen like a good-willed engineer dream that doesn't wants to face social reality or thinks s…

> I think this new version is the latter case, a bad rehearsal used as a veil of the ascent of fascism in the States. I've found over time that one man's utopia is another's hellish nightmare. This is true of every utopia and should be a pretty strong argument against implementing them at all.

I see this in some cities. They are very clean looking, no litter, no graffiti, very shiny windows. Then you think about how the people must be treated to make this be true.
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