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Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

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Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#21

Post by rybosworld »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #7

This makes me wonder if that line "I only got so many heart beats, I'm not going to waste them running" has some validity -- I thought Satchel Paige said it, but apparently not. He did say "I generally don’t like running. I believe in training by rising gently up and down from the bench. " Which also fits the "don't prematurely age the stem cells"

I think what you're getting at is: "does using our body also age it?"

It's complicated but I recommend you read up on Hormesis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis

Cells have thresholds for what's considered to be a "good" stressor or a "bad" stressor.

Alcohol was thought to be hormetic for a long time (though, it maybe/probably isn't?) as it was thought that low doses could be beneficial with high doses obviously bad.

Exercise is thought to be hormetic and there's quite a lot of research supporting that.

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#22

Post by rdmirza »

esseph wrote: post #19
atrettel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if this line is true, and I am not saying that it is, running and other cardiovascular activities lower your resting heart rate [1]. So even if you believe that you only have a finite number of heart beats, running should in fact increase your lifespan. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6306777/

Unless you die on a trail run from a heart attack (This has happened to two family members that were both runners.)

Two familial cases of sudden cardiac death? That’s not normal. That’s an indication to investigate.

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#23

Post by toss1 »

dathanb82 wrote: post #20
toss1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question, but needs to be worked through more. Consider an average person's 72/min resting heartbeat. That will be (72 60 24 365.25=) 37,869,120 heartbeats per year or ~379 million/decade. Now, add strenuous running or cycling 5 hours/week, maybe a 10mi run, and a bunch of 20-60 minute runs. Call that average 180 beats/minute. That adds ((180-72) 300 52=) 1,684,800 beats/year, or +16 million per decade. The aver…

It’s probably even more pronounced, since it’s unlikely that someone is going to _average_ 180bpm for their entire workout, especially as they get older.

Exactly!

And that level of workout will probably produce an even significantly lower resting heart rate than the 52 I cited. And for the top endurance athletes in distance running, cycling, nordic skiing, although they might spend 10+ hours/week at threshold or some training zone, so double those extra 'exercsie beats', they also often have resting heartrates in the low 40s/minute, which will yield an even greater lifespan if it is measured in heartbeate.

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#24

Post by Qem »

bikenaga wrote: post #2

Original article: "Cellular survivorship bias as a mechanistic driver of muscle stem cell aging" - https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ads9175 Abstract: "Aging is characterized by a decline in the ability of tissue repair and regeneration after injury. In skeletal muscle, this decline is largely driven by impaired function of muscle stem cells (MuSCs) to efficiently contribute to muscle regeneration. We uncov…

> We uncovered a cause of this aging-associated dysfunction: a cellular survivorship bias that prioritizes stem cell persistence at the expense of functionality.

Past forty, pitiless new equations take hold. Sacrifices must be made...

https://www.badspacecomics.com/post/the-suit

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#25

Post by esseph »

rdmirza wrote: post #22
esseph wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you die on a trail run from a heart attack (This has happened to two family members that were both runners.)

Two familial cases of sudden cardiac death? That’s not normal. That’s an indication to investigate.

Generic heart disease runs in the family. Every male in my family basically dies of it, it doesn't matter how fit they are or how much they lift or run. Hasn't mattered. This goes back 5 or 6 generations.

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#26

Post by michaelhoney »

dathanb82 wrote: post #20
toss1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question, but needs to be worked through more. Consider an average person's 72/min resting heartbeat. That will be (72 60 24 365.25=) 37,869,120 heartbeats per year or ~379 million/decade. Now, add strenuous running or cycling 5 hours/week, maybe a 10mi run, and a bunch of 20-60 minute runs. Call that average 180 beats/minute. That adds ((180-72) 300 52=) 1,684,800 beats/year, or +16 million per decade. The aver…

It’s probably even more pronounced, since it’s unlikely that someone is going to _average_ 180bpm for their entire workout, especially as they get older.

Yes: I'm 57 and my heartrate rarely goes over 150. ~135bpm is "run a 5k twice a week" pace, only maintained for 30 mins, and resting heart rate is ~50

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#27

Post by Nevermark »

lumost wrote: post #4
TacticalCoder wrote: post #3

> Aging muscles heal more slowly after injury—a frustrating reality familiar to many older adults. > In skeletal muscle, this decline is largely driven by impaired function of muscle stem cells (MuSCs) I take it that as mitosis (cell division) gets slower with age, there's also simply no way aging muscles could potentially not heal more slowly? So slower mitosis and then in addition to that muscle cells going into a…

No known mechanism, but cross species checks would imply that the schedule was evolved and has some control mechanism. Species that evolved before the Devonian period tend not to age and instead grow through their entire lives. There is no mechanistic understanding for the wild variation in species lifespans. So the natural question in these studies is what would happen if we simply told the muscles not to age this w…

I misread that as the "Denisovan period" and found it interesting that in addition to Homo Floresiensis Hobbits, there might have been arbitrarily large Denisova Hominin giants. Oh well.

I will have to be satisfied with Andre the Giant.

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#28

Post by Nevermark »

nanomonkey wrote: post #5
lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No known mechanism, but cross species checks would imply that the schedule was evolved and has some control mechanism. Species that evolved before the Devonian period tend not to age and instead grow through their entire lives. There is no mechanistic understanding for the wild variation in species lifespans. So the natural question in these studies is what would happen if we simply told the muscles not to age this w…

Interesting, the Devonian also appears to be the period at which fish started sporting limb like appendages and muscle structures, and other animals started to explore land. Perhaps unlimited body growth doesn't work well for animals not entirely supported by water.

Interestingly, the limbless boa constrictor's growth slows, but never stops.

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#29

Post by esseph »

esseph wrote: post #25
rdmirza wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two familial cases of sudden cardiac death? That’s not normal. That’s an indication to investigate.

Generic heart disease runs in the family. Every male in my family basically dies of it, it doesn't matter how fit they are or how much they lift or run. Hasn't mattered. This goes back 5 or 6 generations.

*Genetic!

Re: Aging muscle stem cells shift from rapid repair to long-term survival

#30

Post by readthenotes1 »

atrettel wrote: post #16
readthenotes1 wrote: post #7

This makes me wonder if that line "I only got so many heart beats, I'm not going to waste them running" has some validity -- I thought Satchel Paige said it, but apparently not. He did say "I generally don’t like running. I believe in training by rising gently up and down from the bench. " Which also fits the "don't prematurely age the stem cells"

Even if this line is true, and I am not saying that it is, running and other cardiovascular activities lower your resting heart rate [1]. So even if you believe that you only have a finite number of heart beats, running should in fact increase your lifespan. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6306777/

Yes, but iirc, Long distance runners have the same mortality as couch potatoes because their hearts give out
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