Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

teslamotors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 139 posts

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#21

Post by sbierwagen »

pkulak wrote: post #10
wmf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The superchargers are free for the Model S, which implies that they may not be free for future models.

Are the chargers really that smart? Do they communicate with the car and know the make/modle/year etc? Which brings up something else. Could a company potentially build a step-down converter to use to charge my Leaf for free? I'm not really sure how much hardware it takes to step down voltage that significantly.

SAE J1772 has a data pin, yes. It's how the car communicates rate-of-charge.

The Supercharger uses a different plug, though, which I don't know anything about. The voltage (440v) and speed indicate DC charging, which J1772 doesn't support. (The Leaf uses the CHAdeMO connector for DC charging)

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#22

Post by secalex »

pkulak wrote: post #10
wmf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The superchargers are free for the Model S, which implies that they may not be free for future models.

Are the chargers really that smart? Do they communicate with the car and know the make/modle/year etc? Which brings up something else. Could a company potentially build a step-down converter to use to charge my Leaf for free? I'm not really sure how much hardware it takes to step down voltage that significantly.

Yes, the Tesla charging port has a data link that allows Superchargers to speak directly to the battery's firmware. There is almost certainly "Tesla DRM" built into the handshake between the S and the Supercharger, although like all DRM it could probably be reversed engineered and compatible systems created. That's a lot of fun when you are trying to copy a Blu-Ray, less fun when you are dealing with 100kW.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#23

Post by sbierwagen » 

  In case your eye skipped over the “for free” part, I would  
  like to emphasize that again – owning a Supercharger 
  enabled Model S really does mean free long distance travel 
  forever on our high speed charging network.
I really wish they'd stop saying this. They're essentially committing to building a nationwide electric car charging infrastructure for $nodollars, and never charging customers to use it, ever.

Which means either

  A.) They're not going to build more than 30 charging stations.
  B.) They're all going to be significantly far away from population 
      centers, and used only for interstate travel.
No matter what, a Tesla car is going to be spending 99.9% of its time charging at home or at work.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#24

Post by mbreese »

thesis wrote: post #12
3825 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be impractical but I'd love to see standardization across different car companies so all the different electric cars from different auto manufacturers can share the same / similar charging facilities. Sort of like if I have a smart phone and I go to a friend's house it would be nice to be able to charge my phone on their charger. Phone chargers are cheap. Car chargers are not so much.

There's a standard in North America: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

I'm fairly certain that is for standard charging. The super chargers probably push too much current for this standard. I don't know if it can use the same "plug" format though...

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#25

Post by [deleted] »

thesis wrote: post #12
3825 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be impractical but I'd love to see standardization across different car companies so all the different electric cars from different auto manufacturers can share the same / similar charging facilities. Sort of like if I have a smart phone and I go to a friend's house it would be nice to be able to charge my phone on their charger. Phone chargers are cheap. Car chargers are not so much.

There's a standard in North America: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

[deleted]

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#26

Post by salimmadjd »

I admire Musk and tesla. However, I see two paths for them and none are good.

A - fully-electric cars are still too early and will get crushed by hybrids or more efficient diesel/fossil fuel cars. Tesla becomes irrelevent.

B - fully-electric is all the rage, and every brand will have one. Tesla will become the victims of their own success.

I'm going to assume many of you are going to disagree with me. Mainly because we come from a world with a much different customer acquisition models.

For most people, if they had a choice they would buy a trusted car brand. Would you buy an Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Mercedes, etc with dealership in every corner or an unknown car called tesla? Also, unlike niche companies like Ferrari/Lamborghini that have brand and performance appeal, tesla doesn't provide anything unique. For the same price point, there are far better cars, than the original lotus-based Tesla. To that point, what's their beachhead?

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#27

Post by shortlived »

Gring wrote: post #16

"The Product Specialists (...) goal and the sole metric of their success is to have you enjoy the experience of visiting so much that you look forward to returning again." This is not the experience I had. Walked into a Tesla store, said I want to test drive a Roadster. Salesman went into that profiling mode that all car salesmen do constantly and no customer likes, asking me all kinds of questions to find out how mu…

How _should_ Tesla sales prevent any random techie from asking for a test drive?

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#28

Post by wmf »

salimmadjd wrote: post #26

I admire Musk and tesla. However, I see two paths for them and none are good. A - fully-electric cars are still too early and will get crushed by hybrids or more efficient diesel/fossil fuel cars. Tesla becomes irrelevent. B - fully-electric is all the rage, and every brand will have one. Tesla will become the victims of their own success. I'm going to assume many of you are going to disagree with me. Mainly because…

Every brand may have electric cars using licensed Tesla technology.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#29

Post by wmf »

sbierwagen wrote: post #23

In case your eye skipped over the “for free” part, I would like to emphasize that again – owning a Supercharger enabled Model S really does mean free long distance travel forever on our high speed charging network. I really wish they'd stop saying this. They're essentially committing to building a nationwide electric car charging infrastructure for $nodollars, and never charging customers to use it, ever. Which means…

"Free long distance travel" obviously means B. It's not like this is a secret.

Re: The Tesla Approach to Distributing and Servicing Cars

#30

Post by enraged_camel »

Gring wrote: post #16

"The Product Specialists (...) goal and the sole metric of their success is to have you enjoy the experience of visiting so much that you look forward to returning again." This is not the experience I had. Walked into a Tesla store, said I want to test drive a Roadster. Salesman went into that profiling mode that all car salesmen do constantly and no customer likes, asking me all kinds of questions to find out how mu…

Makes sense. They probably get a lot of people who pretend to be buyers just to be able to test-drive a Tesla. Since such people don't end up buying one (as they cannot afford it), letting them test-drive serves no purpose other than wasting the dealer's time, and setting a $300 fee helps weed them out. Note that most high-end car dealers do this.

Another way to think about it is this: if you were a serious buyer, i.e. the type who can spend a tens of grand on a car, then a $300 fee would be pocket change for you. In all likelihood, it would count towards the purchase of the car if you decided to buy one. But declining to pay the fee basically confirms their suspicion that you were not a serious buyer and were there simply to satisfy your curiosity.

Post reply on HN