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Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

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Re: Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

#21

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #11
sizzzzlerz wrote: post #3

This blows me away. I worked on systems that processed the signals from these satellites at the ground sites. At the time, these were highly classified, requiring background investigations and a polygraph to be granted access to know about these things. All our work had to be performed in a SCIF and we were forbidden to discuss our work with anyone not cleared to know. The form that we had to sign when being briefed…

You also lose 4A for life per executive order.

For the downvoters. See EO12333 2.4(b) & (c):

  2.4 Collection Techniques...
  These procedures shall not authorize:
  ...
  (c) Physical surveillance of a United States
      person in the United States by agencies
      other than the FBI, except for:

  (1) Physical surveillance of present or former
      employees, present or former intelligence
      agency contractors or their present or former
      employees, or applicants for any such
      employment or contracting; and

  (2) Physical surveillance of a military person
      employed by a nonintelligence element of a
      military service.
This is written to look like it's constitutional but it's granting power through the wide-ranging exceptions. The upshot is it grants all agencies other than the FBI approval to surveil individuals covered by 2.4(c)1 & 2. The FBI gets a complete blank check on everyone. Covering "former employees" means this remains in effect until death for those affected.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/execu...

Re: Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

#22

Post by pseudohadamard »

sizzzzlerz wrote: post #3

This blows me away. I worked on systems that processed the signals from these satellites at the ground sites. At the time, these were highly classified, requiring background investigations and a polygraph to be granted access to know about these things. All our work had to be performed in a SCIF and we were forbidden to discuss our work with anyone not cleared to know. The form that we had to sign when being briefed…

Was this really that secret? I've known about JUMPSEAT for at least 20 years and I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have any kind of security clearance. Not sure where the information was published, maybe one of James Bamford's books, but there's nothing terribly new there apart from the USG finally acknowledging what we already knew.

Re: Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

#23

Post by Biggbboattttt »

pseudohadamard wrote: post #22
sizzzzlerz wrote: post #3

This blows me away. I worked on systems that processed the signals from these satellites at the ground sites. At the time, these were highly classified, requiring background investigations and a polygraph to be granted access to know about these things. All our work had to be performed in a SCIF and we were forbidden to discuss our work with anyone not cleared to know. The form that we had to sign when being briefed…

Was this really that secret? I've known about JUMPSEAT for at least 20 years and I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have any kind of security clearance. Not sure where the information was published, maybe one of James Bamford's books, but there's nothing terribly new there apart from the USG finally acknowledging what we already knew.

Interesting point! I think a lot of the secrecy around programs like JUMPSEAT is more about official acknowledgment than actual hidden knowledge so what’s been publicly available for years suddenly becomes ‘news’ once the government confirms it. James Bamford’s work definitely made a lot of this info accessible to the public, so it makes sense that someone could know about it without clearance.

Re: Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

#24

Post by pseudohadamard »

Biggbboattttt wrote: post #23
pseudohadamard wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this really that secret? I've known about JUMPSEAT for at least 20 years and I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have any kind of security clearance. Not sure where the information was published, maybe one of James Bamford's books, but there's nothing terribly new there apart from the USG finally acknowledging what we already knew.

Interesting point! I think a lot of the secrecy around programs like JUMPSEAT is more about official acknowledgment than actual hidden knowledge so what’s been publicly available for years suddenly becomes ‘news’ once the government confirms it. James Bamford’s work definitely made a lot of this info accessible to the public, so it makes sense that someone could know about it without clearance.

I've had a quick look and it's mentioned in a number of places, Matthew Aid's "The Secret Sentry" mentions it briefly, Bamford has a page or two in "Body of Secrets", and for honorable mention Jeffrey Richelson's "Wizards of Langley" doesn't have it but does cover the entire KH series across a span of around 250 pages. It may be in a few more books but it'd be a pile to go through.

Re: Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

#25

Post by sizzzzlerz »

pseudohadamard wrote: post #22
sizzzzlerz wrote: post #3

This blows me away. I worked on systems that processed the signals from these satellites at the ground sites. At the time, these were highly classified, requiring background investigations and a polygraph to be granted access to know about these things. All our work had to be performed in a SCIF and we were forbidden to discuss our work with anyone not cleared to know. The form that we had to sign when being briefed…

Was this really that secret? I've known about JUMPSEAT for at least 20 years and I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have any kind of security clearance. Not sure where the information was published, maybe one of James Bamford's books, but there's nothing terribly new there apart from the USG finally acknowledging what we already knew.

Knowing that some classified program exists is one thing. Knowing technical details, capabilities, missions, targeting, is a whole nother. One can read about such black programs from a number of sources, Bamford's Puzzle Palace is one. Sontag's Blind Man's Bluff is another. You can also learn about such things from books and newspaper articles about people who revealed secret information to the Soviet Union, Chris Boyce, Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen, and the Walker Family. In other words, nothing is truly secret if you know where to look and have a ability to piece together disparate facts to build up a more complete picture.

Re: Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

#26

Post by halJordan »

sizzzzlerz wrote: post #18
Neywiny wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure I don't need to say it, but what got declassified and the work you did are very, very different things. Pretty much everything in the notice is included in this article, so anything you're not reading.... Best to keep to yourself.

Not to worry. Unlike trump, I didn't remove classified info from the SCIF and store it in my bathroom or share it with Russian dinner guests. I hold my oaths seriously.

"I have a lifetime obligation to not talk about this," so im gonna post about it on the Internet.

Re: Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

#27

Post by halJordan »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #14

I am kind of curious: if this kind of data collection was possible then, what is it possible today to see and collect using satellites? Feels like all the crazy satellite capabilities in spy movies are not that crazy after all.

The president actually tweeted it out for you

Re: Declassifying JUMPSEAT: an American pioneer in space

#28

Post by pseudohadamard »

sizzzzlerz wrote: post #25
pseudohadamard wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this really that secret? I've known about JUMPSEAT for at least 20 years and I'm not a US citizen, nor do I have any kind of security clearance. Not sure where the information was published, maybe one of James Bamford's books, but there's nothing terribly new there apart from the USG finally acknowledging what we already knew.

Knowing that some classified program exists is one thing. Knowing technical details, capabilities, missions, targeting, is a whole nother. One can read about such black programs from a number of sources, Bamford's Puzzle Palace is one. Sontag's Blind Man's Bluff is another. You can also learn about such things from books and newspaper articles about people who revealed secret information to the Soviet Union, Chris Bo…

"Blind Man's Bluff" was a really impressive piece of work, I once talked about it with someone who was involved with the program and he was astounded at how much Sontag had managed to find out. There were things in the book that he didn't even know about, because they were compartmentalised and Sontag wasn't.
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