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What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

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Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#21

Post by ceejayoz »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #19
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This particular one wasn't going anywhere useful. That's presumably why the comment said "when [collective they] finally get lucky", not "when [individual they] inevitably get lucky". A certain percentage of your species having genes encouraging risky/stupid behavior is likely somewhat useful.

A lone penguin wandering off is never going to create a new, badass species. There would need to be an entire group of penguins breaking off to establish a new population and eventually a new species. And they don't necessarily become more badass, just different; whatever alleles the founders had will be more consistently expressed in the new population, and eventually they may diverge enough to be a new species. Reg…

> A lone penguin wandering off is never going to create a new, badass species.

Sure. But two might.

Or the behavior may sometimes benefit the colony a few coves over with some new genes every so often.

See also: Homosexuality in various animals, including humans. Individually, not great for your genes' survival. Collectively, seems to have enough of an advantage to the species to not be selected out.

Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#22

Post by Notatheist »

It has been a while since I read Nietzsche but what exactly does trekking off into the unknown or even certain death have to do with nihilism? Maybe active nihilism but even that would be a stretch, not to mention it would make the penguin inspiring rather than depressing.

Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#23

Post by DavidPiper »

netsharc wrote: post #10

Interesting, I've seen videos about this nihilistic penguin the last few days on Instagram... Feels like content regurgitation, but I don't know who's creating and who's recycling it at the moment. (On HN there's often a story from one site one day, and a few days later the same story reported by a different news site..)

It seems to have come from the US Department of Homeland Security - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7WqVx9x89s

Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#24

Post by Towaway69 »

observationist wrote: post #2

That's how new species happen. Over time, the penguins who get sufficiently tired of all the other penguins' shit march off to the edge of the map, and when they finally get lucky, enough of the smart, independent minded penguins survive to produce a new generation. The new adventure flock eventually garners enough members to march back to the feeding grounds and seize the territory from the loser normy penguins. Thu…

Or they find a new feeding ground? Why does the universe bend to “badass penguins”?

The universe really does not care, in a “badass” way. Major league not caring.

It’s our interpretation that something is “badass” mainly because our species has pretty much negatively affected most parts of the environment.

It’s us that are “badass” and don’t “get it” when it comes to nature and the environment.

As someone else points out, there is no such thing as a nihilist penguin, it’s purely us putting a label on behaviour that we - once again - don’t understand.

Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#25

Post by tialaramex »

ceejayoz wrote: post #6
tptacek wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the sequence is that there's no chance that these "badass penguins" are going to make new species. There's no food where they're monomaniacally heading. They're going to die.

This particular one wasn't going anywhere useful. That's presumably why the comment said "when [collective they] finally get lucky", not "when [individual they] inevitably get lucky". A certain percentage of your species having genes encouraging risky/stupid behavior is likely somewhat useful.

No, this trait is almost certainly not useful.

Mother Nature doesn't give a shit, that's worth remembering. For the scenarios where two species in an arms race wipe each other out aren't somehow more or less desirable than other outcomes, it's just a thing which happened. Meh.

Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#26

Post by seizethecheese »

Notatheist wrote: post #22

It has been a while since I read Nietzsche but what exactly does trekking off into the unknown or even certain death have to do with nihilism? Maybe active nihilism but even that would be a stretch, not to mention it would make the penguin inspiring rather than depressing.

Yeah, this is using nihilism in the colloquial sense that is closer to a synonym of “aimless” or maybe “doomed”. The penguin can’t possibly be a nihilist except for in the sense that all animals are nihilists

Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#27

Post by ceejayoz »

tialaramex wrote: post #25
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This particular one wasn't going anywhere useful. That's presumably why the comment said "when [collective they] finally get lucky", not "when [individual they] inevitably get lucky". A certain percentage of your species having genes encouraging risky/stupid behavior is likely somewhat useful.

No, this trait is almost certainly not useful. Mother Nature doesn't give a shit, that's worth remembering. For the scenarios where two species in an arms race wipe each other out aren't somehow more or less desirable than other outcomes, it's just a thing which happened. Meh.

> Mother Nature doesn't give a shit

Sure. That's not required for natural selection to work.

But any species that reliably returns to its birthplace like penguins and salmon and elephants must have some tiny proportion of the population that wanders off and gets lost occasionally to be able to spread to new areas.

Sometimes it'll be a storm or a big ice crevasse that does it, but there's no reason it can't sometimes be this.

Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#28

Post by direwolf20 »

netsharc wrote: post #10

Interesting, I've seen videos about this nihilistic penguin the last few days on Instagram... Feels like content regurgitation, but I don't know who's creating and who's recycling it at the moment. (On HN there's often a story from one site one day, and a few days later the same story reported by a different news site..)

The Trump administration posted it.

Re: What does Werner Herzog's nihilist penguin teach us? (2017)

#30

Post by krona »

Notatheist wrote: post #22

It has been a while since I read Nietzsche but what exactly does trekking off into the unknown or even certain death have to do with nihilism? Maybe active nihilism but even that would be a stretch, not to mention it would make the penguin inspiring rather than depressing.

This is Nietzsche’s will to power in its most unforgiving form.

The will to power is not mere survival or dominance over others; at its apex it is the drive to impose one’s own meaning on existence, even when that meaning is written in self-destruction.

It is like Empedocles and the volcano.

Empedocles does not leap to escape mortality; he leaps to overreach it, to force the cosmos to acknowledge his claim, even if the price is erasure.

The penguin would rather perish as itself than endure as something lesser.

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