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You have to know how to drive the car

seangoedecke.com

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Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#21

Post by bartread »

rednafi wrote: post #9

Do you ever get tired of playing this “visibility,” “impact,” “promo politics” game and think, “I came into this industry because I like computers, not… whatever this is”?

All the time, my friend: all the damn time.

I've been all the way up to CTO in a mid-size company (650ish people), and I've felt like this in every role I've had at different times. Some places more than others. Where I was CTO wasn't too bad but that came at the cost of me not touching code at the company for several years because, at that level, and in the kind of company it was, you just really can't - not without finding yourself becoming a blocker anyway.

But I've worked in a couple of larger organisations - one of them, probably 90k employees, although it wasn't a tech company - and these issues are rife there as well. To some extent, I think it's just big company behaviour, not specific only to big tech companies.

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#22

Post by drivebyhooting »

ytoawwhra92 wrote: post #12
casualscience wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crapping something out as quickly as possible and leaving somebody else to deal with the fallout of a bad data model and violent on-call isn't something to be rewarded IMO. Sadly you've described precisely the optimal engineering strategy for promotion at my FAANG

> FAANG And yet those five companies are among the most valuable in the world. There's a cognitive dissonance that arises when you join a company that is performing extraordinarily well only to perceive dysfunction and incompetence everywhere you look. It's so hard to reconcile the reality that companies can be embarrassingly wasteful, political, and arbitrary in how they run and yet can still dominate markets and pr…

That’s because FAANGs are successful due to monopolization and network effects. Not by the quality of their work.

This is especially true for Meta.

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#23

Post by nlawalker »

alexjplant wrote: post #4

> You ought to know that crushing JIRA tickets is rarely a path to promotion (at least above mid-level), that glue work can be a trap, that you will be judged on the results of your projects, and therefore getting good at shipping projects is the path to career success. Notice that the author didn't write "getting good at delivering value." They wrote "getting good at shipping projects " because > Shipping is a socia…

>Shipping is a social construct within a company.

Thanks for flagging this, this was an epiphany for me today, so for anyone else struck by it I'm linking directly to the article it's from (same author, and linked from the article in the context the parent mentions, just not linked directly in their post above):

"How I ship projects at big tech companies" https://www.seangoedecke.com/how-to-ship/

Also the HN comments on it from when it was originally posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42111031

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#24

Post by edmundsauto »

rednafi wrote: post #9

Do you ever get tired of playing this “visibility,” “impact,” “promo politics” game and think, “I came into this industry because I like computers, not… whatever this is”?

At most organizational sizes, the hard problems are that of coordinating people and not software. It’s a hard decision, but ultimately if you want to scale the size of your impact - you have to make these tradeoffs.

Some folks want to scale impact. Some want to be bespoke crafters. Both are okay, you just have to accept they are mutually exclusive.

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#25

Post by tomhow »

PeterWhittaker wrote: post #3

Actual title: You Have to Know How to Drive the Car. Actual theme: LARGE tech companies suck. Declared subject: you have to know how tech companies work Actually subject: you have to know how large-and-or-disfunctional-and-or-sales-or-finance-bro-led-companies work. Tagging @dang re title.

Thanks, we updated the title

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#26

Post by jppope »

I've read the author's articles before and they really are quite cynical. It reminds me of all those 90s shows and movies where all the white-collar work was considered soul sucking and the people who did it were corporate stooges. As if a person should feel shame for working a job and paying bills.

As much as a person may choose to belittle the bureaucracy at companies, it exists for a reason, and often that reason is fairly sensible. It is also simple to avoid bureaucracy if you dislike bureaucracy: just go work at companies where it hasn't had a chance to build up or the company has intentionally kept its bureaucracy in check.

Regarding promotions in bureaucratic companies:

> "You ought to know that crushing JIRA tickets is rarely a path to promotion (at least above mid-level), that glue work can be a trap, that you will be judged on the results of your projects, and therefore getting good at shipping projects is the path to career success"

Whats interesting is that all sorts of companies evaluate performance differently. The better companies will tell you how they are evaluating you - so if you want to get promoted, do the things they say you should do to get promoted. Glue work, crushing jira tickets, making the world a better place... are actually things that a company might positively evaluate you on... or maybe all they care about is shipping and you should just do that. The path to promotion is doing the things that a company is willing to promote you for ("If you want to be loved, be lovable").

For what its worth at Wells Fargo during the account scams your path to promotion was doing illegal stuff. So you know, maybe don't do that stuff and avoid promotion even if you can't leave your job right now.

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#27

Post by cdf »

ytoawwhra92 wrote: post #12
casualscience wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crapping something out as quickly as possible and leaving somebody else to deal with the fallout of a bad data model and violent on-call isn't something to be rewarded IMO. Sadly you've described precisely the optimal engineering strategy for promotion at my FAANG

> FAANG And yet those five companies are among the most valuable in the world. There's a cognitive dissonance that arises when you join a company that is performing extraordinarily well only to perceive dysfunction and incompetence everywhere you look. It's so hard to reconcile the reality that companies can be embarrassingly wasteful, political, and arbitrary in how they run and yet can still dominate markets and pr…

Because big companies can crush competition, either via lobbying for government regulations, acquiring the competitors, or driving the competition out of business by offering something comparable but cheaper or free.

It's the old Microsoft playbook of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish, but with more finesse.

It is also why their acquisitions tend to just die, because once the big company inefficiencies get integrated, the acquired startups just cannot function.

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#28

Post by ytoawwhra92 »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #22
ytoawwhra92 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FAANG And yet those five companies are among the most valuable in the world. There's a cognitive dissonance that arises when you join a company that is performing extraordinarily well only to perceive dysfunction and incompetence everywhere you look. It's so hard to reconcile the reality that companies can be embarrassingly wasteful, political, and arbitrary in how they run and yet can still dominate markets and pr…

That’s because FAANGs are successful due to monopolization and network effects. Not by the quality of their work. This is especially true for Meta.

How did they get there?

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#29

Post by zug_zug »

I don't think I agree with this article. I thought "drive the car" was a metaphor for writing software, but no it's not. It's a metaphor for politics/visibility stuff.

And truth be told, you don't have to do politics/visibility stuff. It's true that thinking about that all the time probably increases your odds of getting promoted. But also, what if you obsess about optics/your boss's boss's opinions/crunching/visibility etc etc for 3 years and you end up not getting promoted anyways?

I feel like a certain type of content tries to invoke fomo in you in order to get you hooked on their promise of their content. Fundamentally I believe that you'll be happiest in your life if you work at a company that is small, has a good gender balance, has a good balance of personalities (i.e. not all competitive high-functioning spectrumy nerds), and doesn't obsess over hype-cycles.

I spent many years trying to get promoted and if I could do it over I wouldn't have, I'd just let it inevitably happen with years in the industry.

Re: You have to know how to drive the car

#30

Post by [deleted] »

teeray wrote: post #18
alexjplant wrote: post #4

> You ought to know that crushing JIRA tickets is rarely a path to promotion (at least above mid-level), that glue work can be a trap, that you will be judged on the results of your projects, and therefore getting good at shipping projects is the path to career success. Notice that the author didn't write "getting good at delivering value." They wrote "getting good at shipping projects " because > Shipping is a socia…

> Crapping something out as quickly as possible… I suppose that makes AI Taco Bell for companies.

[deleted]
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