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AI Tribalism

nolanlawson.com

21–30 of 99 posts

Re: AI Tribalism

#21
> I can already hear the cries of protest from other engineers who (like me) are clutching onto their hard-won knowledge.

You mean the knowledge that Claude has stolen from all of us and regurgitated into your projects without any copyright attributions?

> But I see a lot of my fellow developers burying their heads in the sand

That feeling is mutual.

Re: AI Tribalism

#22
where are the productivity gains in GDP?

where are the websites that are lightning fast, where speed and features and ads have been magically optimized by ai, and things feel fast like 2001 google.com fast

why does customer service still SUCK?

Re: AI Tribalism

#23

What if I just enjoy how I work at the moment and don't really care about this stuff? Why do I _have_ to give it a go? Why don't LLM evangelists accept this as an option? Choosing not to use AI agents is maybe the only tool position I feel I've had to defend or justify in over a decade of doing this, and it's so bizarre to me. It almost reeks of insecurity from the Agent Evangelists and I wonder if all the "fear" and…

Nobody pushed you to use git when you were comfortable with svn? Nobody pushed you to use Docker when you were comfortable running bare metal? Nobody pushed you to write unit tests when you were comfortable not? Nobody pushed you to use CSS for layout when you were happy using tables?

Some of those are before your time, but: The only time you don't get pushed to use new technologies is when a) nothing is changing and the industry is stagnant, or b) you're ahead of the curve and already exploring the new technology on your own.

Otherwise, everyone always gets pushed into using the new thing when it's good.

Re: AI Tribalism

#24
post #8

> The models don’t have to get better, the costs don’t have to come down (heck, they could even double and it’d still be worth it) What worries me about this is that it might end up putting up a barrier for those that can't afford it. What do things look like if models cost $1000 or more a month and genuinely provide 3x productivity improvements?

I mean, your employer will pay it. $1K/month is cheap for your employer.

But there is an interesting point about what it does to hobby dev. If it takes real money just to screw around for fun on your own, it's kinda like going back to the old days when you needed to have an account on a big university system to do anything with Unix.

Re: AI Tribalism

#25
post #19
post #11

> I see a lot of my fellow developers burying their heads in the sand, refusing to acknowledge the truth in front of their eyes, and it breaks my heart because a lot of us are scared, confused, or uncertain, and not enough of us are talking honestly about it. Imagine if we had to suffer these posts, day in and day out, when React or Kubernetes or any other piece of technology got released. This kind of proselyting th…

The author of that post Nolan is a pretty interesting guy and deep in the web tech stack. He’s really one of the last people I’d call "tribal", especially since you mention React. This guy hand-writes his web components and files bug reports to browsers and writes his own memory leak detection lib and so on. If such a guy is slowly dipping his toes into AI and comes to the conclusion he just posted, you should take a…

I really don't care what authority he's arguing from. The "just try it" pitch here is fundamentally a tribalist argument: tribes don't want another tribe to exist that's viewed as threatening to them.

Re: AI Tribalism

#26

What if I just enjoy how I work at the moment and don't really care about this stuff? Why do I _have_ to give it a go? Why don't LLM evangelists accept this as an option? Choosing not to use AI agents is maybe the only tool position I feel I've had to defend or justify in over a decade of doing this, and it's so bizarre to me. It almost reeks of insecurity from the Agent Evangelists and I wonder if all the "fear" and…

I think the standing assumption is that most of us take pride and enjoyment in being good at our craft - and some of us even want to be great at it. That means understanding all the tools at our disposal - to see if they are useful or not.

If that is not interesting to you I think that’s a totally fine choice, but you’re getting a lot of pushback from people who have made a different choice.

Re: AI Tribalism

#27
AI has pushed me to arrive at an epiphany: new technology is good if it helps me spend more time doing things that I enjoy doing; it's bad if it doesn't; it's worse if I end up spending more time doing things that I don't enjoy.

AI has increased the sheer volume of code we are producing per hour (and probably also the amount of energy spent per unit of code). But, it hasn't spared me or anyone I know the cost of testing, reviewing or refining that code.

Speaking for myself, writing code was always the most fun part of the job. I get a dopamine hit when CI is green, sure, but my heart sinks a bit every time I'm assigned to review a 5K+ loc mountain of AI slop (and it has been happening a lot lately).

Re: AI Tribalism

#28

What if I just enjoy how I work at the moment and don't really care about this stuff? Why do I _have_ to give it a go? Why don't LLM evangelists accept this as an option? Choosing not to use AI agents is maybe the only tool position I feel I've had to defend or justify in over a decade of doing this, and it's so bizarre to me. It almost reeks of insecurity from the Agent Evangelists and I wonder if all the "fear" and…

I'm the same as you: I don't really care about this stuff. Given what we know about the start of these AI endeavors (torrenting/scraping the whole internet and training on it) then running their software seems like a liability. Is it pasting code verbatim that falls under an incompatible license? Is it training on my codebase? Why would I want to depend on this very compute intensive, cloud hosted tool?

At least with other advancements in our field like git, Docker, etc., they're made with a local-first mindset (e.g. your git repos can live anywhere and same with your docker images)

Re: AI Tribalism

#29
post #8

> The models don’t have to get better, the costs don’t have to come down (heck, they could even double and it’d still be worth it) What worries me about this is that it might end up putting up a barrier for those that can't afford it. What do things look like if models cost $1000 or more a month and genuinely provide 3x productivity improvements?

I mean, your employer will pay it. $1K/month is cheap for your employer. But there is an interesting point about what it does to hobby dev. If it takes real money just to screw around for fun on your own, it's kinda like going back to the old days when you needed to have an account on a big university system to do anything with Unix.

Open source software

Small bootstrapped startups

Are more what I had in mind. Of course an established company can pay it. I don't like the idea of a world where all software is backed by big companies

Re: AI Tribalism

#30

> I can already hear the cries of protest from other engineers who (like me) are clutching onto their hard-won knowledge. You mean the knowledge that Claude has stolen from all of us and regurgitated into your projects without any copyright attributions? > But I see a lot of my fellow developers burying their heads in the sand That feeling is mutual.

We did the same as devopers before Claude. We would copy paste from stack overflow. Now this process is heavily automated.
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