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We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

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Re: We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

#21

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

To be fair, this story is basically an ad, but a pretty good one, and many featured HN stories are really marketing. Personally, I don’t mind marketing stuff, if it’s interesting and relevant (like this).

But the fact that most comms cables, these days, have integrated chips, makes for a dangerous trust landscape. That’s something that we’ve known for quite some time.

BTW: I “got it right,” but not because of the checklist. I just knew that a single chip is likely a lot cheaper than a board with many components, and most counterfeits are about selling cheap shit, for premium prices.

But if it were a spy cable, it would probably look almost identical (and likely would have a considerably higher BOM).

Re: We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

#23

Post by userbinator »

invokestatic wrote: post #2

I have a slow burn project where I simulate a supply chain attack on my own motherboard. You can source (now relatively old) Intel PCH chips off Aliexpress that are “unfused” and lack certain security features like Boot Guard (simplified explanation). I bought one of these chips and I intend to desolder the factory one on my motherboard and replace it with the Aliexpress one. This requires somewhat difficult BGA refl…

I don't want Boot Guard or any of that DRM crap. I want freedom.

I want to make a persistent implant/malware that survives OS reinstalls.

Look up Absolute Computrace Persistence. It's there by default in a lot of BIOS images, but won't survive a BIOS reflash with an image that has the module stripped out (unless you have the "security" of Boot Guard, which will effectively make this malware mandatory!)

I’m more interested in demonstrating how important hardware root of trust is.

You mean more interested in toeing the line of corporate authoritarianism.

Re: We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

#24

Post by baby_souffle »

mschuster91 wrote: post #11
invokestatic wrote: post #2

I have a slow burn project where I simulate a supply chain attack on my own motherboard. You can source (now relatively old) Intel PCH chips off Aliexpress that are “unfused” and lack certain security features like Boot Guard (simplified explanation). I bought one of these chips and I intend to desolder the factory one on my motherboard and replace it with the Aliexpress one. This requires somewhat difficult BGA refl…

> I want to make a persistent implant/malware that survives OS reinstalls. You want to look into something called "Windows Platform Binary Table" [1]. Figure out a way to reflash the BIOS or the UEFI firmware for your target device ad-hoc and there you have your implant. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19800807

> You want to look into something called "Windows Platform Binary Table" [1].

Is this how various motherboard manufacturers are embedding their system control software? I was helping a family friend with some computer issues and we could not figure out where the `armoury-crate` (asus software for controlling RGB leds on motherboard :() program kept coming from

Re: We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

#25

Post by taneq »

userbinator wrote: post #23
invokestatic wrote: post #2

I have a slow burn project where I simulate a supply chain attack on my own motherboard. You can source (now relatively old) Intel PCH chips off Aliexpress that are “unfused” and lack certain security features like Boot Guard (simplified explanation). I bought one of these chips and I intend to desolder the factory one on my motherboard and replace it with the Aliexpress one. This requires somewhat difficult BGA refl…

I don't want Boot Guard or any of that DRM crap. I want freedom. I want to make a persistent implant/malware that survives OS reinstalls. Look up Absolute Computrace Persistence. It's there by default in a lot of BIOS images, but won't survive a BIOS reflash with an image that has the module stripped out (unless you have the "security" of Boot Guard, which will effectively make this malware mandatory!) I’m more inter…

> You mean more interested in toeing the line of corporate authoritarianism.

That’s not what I got from their post. After all, they’re putting in some effort to hardware backdoor their motherboard, physically removing BootGuard. I read it as “if your hardware is rooted then your software is, no matter what you do.”

Re: We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

#26

Post by woleium »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #21

To be fair, this story is basically an ad, but a pretty good one, and many featured HN stories are really marketing. Personally, I don’t mind marketing stuff, if it’s interesting and relevant (like this). But the fact that most comms cables, these days, have integrated chips, makes for a dangerous trust landscape. That’s something that we’ve known for quite some time. BTW: I “got it right,” but not because of the che…

My apple thunderbolt 4 cable has a computer more powerful than my firs computer in it (ARM Cortex‑M0 core running at up to 48 MHz vs a 286 at 25mhz)

Re: We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

#27

Post by Nextgrid »

baby_souffle wrote: post #24
mschuster91 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to make a persistent implant/malware that survives OS reinstalls. You want to look into something called "Windows Platform Binary Table" [1]. Figure out a way to reflash the BIOS or the UEFI firmware for your target device ad-hoc and there you have your implant. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19800807

> You want to look into something called "Windows Platform Binary Table" [1]. Is this how various motherboard manufacturers are embedding their system control software? I was helping a family friend with some computer issues and we could not figure out where the `armoury-crate` (asus software for controlling RGB leds on motherboard :() program kept coming from

That most likely comes from Windows Update though. It now has the ability to download "drivers". It actually had said ability for a long time (back from Vista days if I remember right) but back then it was only downloading the .inf file and associated .sys files/etc, where as nowadays it actually downloads and runs the full vendor bloatware.

Re: We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

#28

Post by BobbyTables2 »

baby_souffle wrote: post #24
mschuster91 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to make a persistent implant/malware that survives OS reinstalls. You want to look into something called "Windows Platform Binary Table" [1]. Figure out a way to reflash the BIOS or the UEFI firmware for your target device ad-hoc and there you have your implant. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19800807

> You want to look into something called "Windows Platform Binary Table" [1]. Is this how various motherboard manufacturers are embedding their system control software? I was helping a family friend with some computer issues and we could not figure out where the `armoury-crate` (asus software for controlling RGB leds on motherboard :() program kept coming from

Likely so. I think that’s actually the intended use of this “feature”

Re: We X-Rayed a Suspicious FTDI USB Cable

#29

Post by nanolith »

I could spot the clone because I'm familiar with the form factor of the FTDI IC, and I'm familiar enough with the datasheet to spot the expected passives.

I'm not too keen these days with FTDI's reputation for manipulating their Windows device drivers to brick clones. So, while I'm familiar with their IC, I don't give them any more money. The next time I need a USB to serial cable, I'll bust out KiCad to build it using one of the ubiquitous ARM microcontrollers with USB features built in. Of course, this is easier for me, since I can write my own Linux or BSD device driver as well. Those using OSes with signing restrictions on drivers would have a harder time, unless they chose to disable driver signing.

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