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Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#21

Post by 6LLvveMx2koXfwn »

philwelch wrote: post #16
londons_explore wrote: post #7

For context for international readers, the UK has a lot of speed cameras and other automated ways to give out fines. These get sent by snailmail to the 'owner'[simplification] of the vehicle using a government database. The owner must then, within a deadline, say who was driving the vehicle at that date and time. If the owner fails to say who was driving, they have committed a criminal offence, and will be fined. It…

That’s a horrible system. Britain used to be famous for the professionalism of their police and now they can’t be bothered to make a traffic stop and give people speeding tickets face to face.

They do do this as well - but speeding was/is such a people killing epidemic and cameras scaled better than people and are cheaper.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#22

Post by mschuster91 »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #12
oakesm9 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lease a car the owner of the vehicle isn't the driver, but the lease company itself. Tesla was contacted to provide the drivers name (as is their legal obligation) and when they didn't they were fined. Exactly the same is true if you own the car outright. You as the owner of the vehicle will be contacted and asked to provide the details of the person who was driving at the time.

I just realized something: doesn't this allow the actual drivers to escape the non-monetary penalties? In the UK, if a driver is caught speeding, they'll (generally) also get points on their license and after accumulating 12 points, they'll (generally) lose their license for a while. Points decay on some frequency which I forget. Anyway, what's to stop someone from driving a company car and then just paying the fines…

> Anyway, what's to stop someone from driving a company car and then just paying the fines via the company and refusing the name the driver?

In Germany when that happens and the company cannot (or does not want to) name the driver... they may get ordered by the authority to keep a logbook. And such an order shows up at any police checkpoint - and if the cops run the plate, they will ask for the logbook. And check the logbook. And if the logbook isn't up to speed... that means some hefty fines.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#23

Post by starwatch »

philwelch wrote: post #16
londons_explore wrote: post #7

For context for international readers, the UK has a lot of speed cameras and other automated ways to give out fines. These get sent by snailmail to the 'owner'[simplification] of the vehicle using a government database. The owner must then, within a deadline, say who was driving the vehicle at that date and time. If the owner fails to say who was driving, they have committed a criminal offence, and will be fined. It…

That’s a horrible system. Britain used to be famous for the professionalism of their police and now they can’t be bothered to make a traffic stop and give people speeding tickets face to face.

I actually quite like the system. They tend to only install speed cameras at high hazard areas e.g. where fatal accidents have occurred. Also the camera's are mostly super visible - bright high-vis yellow, and there are often warning signs as you approach them.

It's quite a different story in other countries at least in terms of visibility!

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#24

Post by mercanlIl »

philwelch wrote: post #16
londons_explore wrote: post #7

For context for international readers, the UK has a lot of speed cameras and other automated ways to give out fines. These get sent by snailmail to the 'owner'[simplification] of the vehicle using a government database. The owner must then, within a deadline, say who was driving the vehicle at that date and time. If the owner fails to say who was driving, they have committed a criminal offence, and will be fined. It…

That’s a horrible system. Britain used to be famous for the professionalism of their police and now they can’t be bothered to make a traffic stop and give people speeding tickets face to face.

I’m a bit biased here, because a close friend’s mother was killed by someone speeding through a red light.

I think automated enforcement of minor driving infractions is a good thing. More efficient use of government resources. Incentivizes drivers to follow the rules of the road.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#25

Post by amiga386 »

philwelch wrote: post #16
londons_explore wrote: post #7

For context for international readers, the UK has a lot of speed cameras and other automated ways to give out fines. These get sent by snailmail to the 'owner'[simplification] of the vehicle using a government database. The owner must then, within a deadline, say who was driving the vehicle at that date and time. If the owner fails to say who was driving, they have committed a criminal offence, and will be fined. It…

That’s a horrible system. Britain used to be famous for the professionalism of their police and now they can’t be bothered to make a traffic stop and give people speeding tickets face to face.

They can still be professional, but Tory cuts made there be a lot fewer police (23,500 police cut from 2010-2019: https://www.gmb.org.uk/news/shock-figures-reveal-23500-polic...) so they don't have the manpower to sit about waiting for speeders.

The UK is not alone in using traffic cameras to enforce speed restrictions. There was a funny example in Germany where their automated cameras blur the face of any passenger... leaving them to be unable to see who was driving a UK left-hand-drive car with Animal from the Muppets in their passenger seat: https://boingboing.net/2008/10/27/german-traffic-cops.html

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#26

Post by atonse »

philwelch wrote: post #16
londons_explore wrote: post #7

For context for international readers, the UK has a lot of speed cameras and other automated ways to give out fines. These get sent by snailmail to the 'owner'[simplification] of the vehicle using a government database. The owner must then, within a deadline, say who was driving the vehicle at that date and time. If the owner fails to say who was driving, they have committed a criminal offence, and will be fined. It…

That’s a horrible system. Britain used to be famous for the professionalism of their police and now they can’t be bothered to make a traffic stop and give people speeding tickets face to face.

I disagree. As much as I hate speed cameras, the way they’ve been implemented (meaning, the fact that you get a letter with evidence and it’s clear you committed the offense, and usually no points, like you might get from a cop) seems to strike a balance of fair punishment.

Now, whether they’re that effective at reducing speeding is a bigger question. Because people just slam the brakes for the 100 feet around the camera and then resume speeding.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#27

Post by pjdesno »

londons_explore wrote: post #7

For context for international readers, the UK has a lot of speed cameras and other automated ways to give out fines. These get sent by snailmail to the 'owner'[simplification] of the vehicle using a government database. The owner must then, within a deadline, say who was driving the vehicle at that date and time. If the owner fails to say who was driving, they have committed a criminal offence, and will be fined. It…

Tesla finance seems legendary in this regard. A friend here in MA got hauled down to city hall because their auto excise taxes were 3 years overdue - they're the responsibility of the owner of a leased car, in this case Tesla finance. According to the person there, the town (50K people or so) had a bunch of Tesla owners in the same boat.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#28

Post by globular-toast »

philwelch wrote: post #16
londons_explore wrote: post #7

For context for international readers, the UK has a lot of speed cameras and other automated ways to give out fines. These get sent by snailmail to the 'owner'[simplification] of the vehicle using a government database. The owner must then, within a deadline, say who was driving the vehicle at that date and time. If the owner fails to say who was driving, they have committed a criminal offence, and will be fined. It…

That’s a horrible system. Britain used to be famous for the professionalism of their police and now they can’t be bothered to make a traffic stop and give people speeding tickets face to face.

So now you've got two cars speeding down the road and a complete waste of limited police resources when you could just have a speed camera.

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#29

Post by stronglikedan »

mercanlIl wrote: post #24
philwelch wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a horrible system. Britain used to be famous for the professionalism of their police and now they can’t be bothered to make a traffic stop and give people speeding tickets face to face.

I’m a bit biased here, because a close friend’s mother was killed by someone speeding through a red light. I think automated enforcement of minor driving infractions is a good thing. More efficient use of government resources. Incentivizes drivers to follow the rules of the road.

Except that this:

> automated enforcement of minor driving infractions

Would not have prevented this:

> someone speeding through a red light

It's the think-of-the-children fallacy

Re: Tesla fined for repeatedly failing to help UK police over driving offences

#30

Post by sensecall »

londons_explore wrote: post #7

For context for international readers, the UK has a lot of speed cameras and other automated ways to give out fines. These get sent by snailmail to the 'owner'[simplification] of the vehicle using a government database. The owner must then, within a deadline, say who was driving the vehicle at that date and time. If the owner fails to say who was driving, they have committed a criminal offence, and will be fined. It…

It's a ludicrous system – I've experienced it first hand.

If for some reason the letter isn't delivered (or indeed sent), the original offence is scrapped and a new offence issued for Failure to provide information.

Frustratingly, there is no obligation on the Police to provide proof of posting, and per the law, it is deemed received once sent.

Try proving you didn't receive something...

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