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BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

batteryuniversity.com

21–30 of 66 posts

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do EV manufacturers use any other tricks not covered by this? Automotive EE here. EV aren’t ready for world wide use. That statement is constantly ignored by people in California who see zero issues with their new expensive fancy cars. Shortest version… The heating and cooling systems of the battery are there to prevent damage. BUT… who powers the heating and cooling systems? The battery of course. In a traditional…

> EV aren’t ready for world wide use. Fully agree (I'm 100% team PHEV or EREV/REEV) as a mechanical engineer. IMO BEVs and PHEVs/REEVs should be on parity in terms of tax/govt incentives, while encouraging electric use - for eg, subsidized (PH)EV charging, high(er) costs in city centres if running in ICE mode, etc. I was just curious if EV manufacturers use any other tricks that're "well known" in EV-land but not for…

These acronyms are a nightmare, what the hell is a PHEV? EREV? PZEV? Consumers are just expected to know this stuff somehow, it’s nuts. Sometimes I buy parts for my car and just hope I selected the right one, because some models are PZEV/not PZEV but the sticker that would tell me has turned completely white & can’t be read.

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#22
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My charging solution is that I've purchased three (cheap and therefore slow) wireless charging docks that sit my phone slightly leaning backwards, therefore nicely viewable if necessary. One sits on my desk at work, one sits on my desk at home and the third sits on my bedside table (it acts like a clock radio / alarm clock). I just place it on the relevant charger while working / sleeping and it's always got enough c…

Those really make my phone overheat, so I avoid them. Didn't they heat yours up?

They’re a joke, I used to have one in my car and the combination of sunlight & internally produced heat would make my phone shut off & display a “iPhone is too hot” message. Even when it’s cold outside.

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#23
post #8

+1 for battery university, they're an excellent source. Does anyone have any other suggestions for similarly technically deep (while approachable) articles on any other facet consumer electronics? My understanding from this article is that: 1. Charge the battery to as low a max percentage as possible (till about 65%) 2. Keep it as cool as possible (up to zero degrees C at least) 3. Use it as little as possible before…

I don't think this advice is useful. You're going to use your devices, so you won't control the temperature or, largely, the charge percentage. I think good advice is to keep your devices as cool as you can (ie don't leave your cars in sunlight when there's shade), which you probably did anyway, and keep the battery between 20% and 80% as much as possible. If the battery is going to stay unused for a while, leave it…

> I think good advice is to keep your devices as cool as you can (ie don't leave your cars in sunlight when there's shade),

In some climates, such as where I live, the larger issue is the cold in the winter. From what I understand, Li-ion batteries don't like being charged below 0 C. And it is not uncommon for it to dip to -15 C or even -20 C here.

Really, from what I understand, batteries want to be kept above freezing but cool. So yeah, don't leave it in direct sunlight in the middle of summer. The more difficult problem is the winter (unless you happen to have a heated garage).

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EV aren’t ready for world wide use. Fully agree (I'm 100% team PHEV or EREV/REEV) as a mechanical engineer. IMO BEVs and PHEVs/REEVs should be on parity in terms of tax/govt incentives, while encouraging electric use - for eg, subsidized (PH)EV charging, high(er) costs in city centres if running in ICE mode, etc. I was just curious if EV manufacturers use any other tricks that're "well known" in EV-land but not for…

These acronyms are a nightmare, what the hell is a PHEV? EREV? PZEV? Consumers are just expected to know this stuff somehow, it’s nuts. Sometimes I buy parts for my car and just hope I selected the right one, because some models are PZEV/not PZEV but the sticker that would tell me has turned completely white & can’t be read.

Consumers just take their shit to the dealer which hires technicians who job it is, literally, to know "what the hell". If that is too complicated for you to figure out, I can't recommend you do your own work on your car.

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#25

After the first battery of my Samsung S4 expanded at the end of its life in less than 2 years, I found a utility that didn't work perfectly but could limit charge anywhere between 30 to 100% most of the time, and it prolonged the lifetime of the couple of later batteries during the 10+ years I used the phone with a limit around 66%. I was glad to see my new Samsung XCover 7 has a built-in option to limit charge to 80…

It's probably not a flaky USB cable. Androids charging limit of 80% includes a policy to charge 100% every 14 days to recalibrate the battery controller. A possibility to limit charging to ~65% does not exist per se but you can measure the time it takes to charge from 25% to 65% and use a power timer to shut down charging after that period of time. It's not accurate but easy to implement. Another factor is fast charg…

Maybe I just expect too much battery life, but I find that I get quite low or even run out when I limit charging to 80%.

My feeling is that the coulomb counting on the Pixel 8 Pro is just not very accurate, so the phone thinks it's at 80%, but is really at 60% or 40%.

I still use the feature, but now I have to top up during the day every so often. I suppose rationally I should just charge to 100% rather than take a medicine that causes the same side effect as the disease its meant to treat, but I'm not that rational.

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#26

+1 for battery university, they're an excellent source. Does anyone have any other suggestions for similarly technically deep (while approachable) articles on any other facet consumer electronics? My understanding from this article is that: 1. Charge the battery to as low a max percentage as possible (till about 65%) 2. Keep it as cool as possible (up to zero degrees C at least) 3. Use it as little as possible before…

> Do EV manufacturers use any other tricks not covered by this? Automotive EE here. EV aren’t ready for world wide use. That statement is constantly ignored by people in California who see zero issues with their new expensive fancy cars. Shortest version… The heating and cooling systems of the battery are there to prevent damage. BUT… who powers the heating and cooling systems? The battery of course. In a traditional…

How is this not an instance of "perfect is the enemy of good enough?"?

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#27
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do EV manufacturers use any other tricks not covered by this? Automotive EE here. EV aren’t ready for world wide use. That statement is constantly ignored by people in California who see zero issues with their new expensive fancy cars. Shortest version… The heating and cooling systems of the battery are there to prevent damage. BUT… who powers the heating and cooling systems? The battery of course. In a traditional…

How is this not an instance of "perfect is the enemy of good enough?"?

[deleted]

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#28
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably not a flaky USB cable. Androids charging limit of 80% includes a policy to charge 100% every 14 days to recalibrate the battery controller. A possibility to limit charging to ~65% does not exist per se but you can measure the time it takes to charge from 25% to 65% and use a power timer to shut down charging after that period of time. It's not accurate but easy to implement. Another factor is fast charg…

Maybe I just expect too much battery life, but I find that I get quite low or even run out when I limit charging to 80%. My feeling is that the coulomb counting on the Pixel 8 Pro is just not very accurate, so the phone thinks it's at 80%, but is really at 60% or 40%. I still use the feature, but now I have to top up during the day every so often. I suppose rationally I should just charge to 100% rather than take a m…

Absolutely. I find it strange that Google decides to provide a fixed value of 80%. A slider from 65% to 95% would be more sufficient...

95% would probably work out for you and still decrease battery wearout...

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#29
Reminds me of “Chargie”, a gadget that goes inline with your USB charging cable and controlled by an app on the device to limit the charge level to whatever you choose. I think it was born via kickstarter.

  “The most Intelligent Battery Health Protection for Phones & Laptops”
  https://chargie.org/

Re: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries (2023)

#30

+1 for battery university, they're an excellent source. Does anyone have any other suggestions for similarly technically deep (while approachable) articles on any other facet consumer electronics? My understanding from this article is that: 1. Charge the battery to as low a max percentage as possible (till about 65%) 2. Keep it as cool as possible (up to zero degrees C at least) 3. Use it as little as possible before…

> Do EV manufacturers use any other tricks not covered by this? Automotive EE here. EV aren’t ready for world wide use. That statement is constantly ignored by people in California who see zero issues with their new expensive fancy cars. Shortest version… The heating and cooling systems of the battery are there to prevent damage. BUT… who powers the heating and cooling systems? The battery of course. In a traditional…

...what? You leave your car plugged in, and that's it. Then the BMS will take care of the battery without having to use it's energy.

If I preheat the car it also preheats the battery. If it's not warm enough it won't allow full recuperation. Oh my god, I have to use THE BRAKES for a few minutes, literal trash car.

And all those people in Norway, you know, with their heat pumps and EVs. Obviously life just grinds to a halt there every winter. *dramatic eye roll

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