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Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

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Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#21

Post by drillsteps5 »

ebiester wrote: post #8
drillsteps5 wrote: post #6

> Instead of applying broadly, identify 5-10 specific opportunities you genuinely want. Do that. >Get in contact with current employees at the company. It is important that you send more than one email. Don't do that. >I've gotten dozens of emails asking for meetings and referrals. I've never gotten one in my entire career, and I was hiring manager in multiple companies/roles. >If the company is Don't never ever EVER…

Oh, I get them all the time. Usually from junior engineers. I don't hold it against them - it's good advice. So, what's your trick to avoid getting skipped because a contract recruiter or internal recruiter is going through resumes at 6 a minute and looking for keywords nowhere near the job profile? What's your trick to get through the noise? Right now, it's brutal from junior to staff, and if your network isn't hiri…

You got me there, I don't have one. I'm senior in my career but haven't been able to build a network that I can rely on when I'm looking for my next role, so I'm in the same boat with all of you guys and gals.

I do maintain though that cold reach out is more often harmful due to the barrier of HR/recruiting built to prevent this from happening, and you trying to go around that will likely cause trouble.

Also, when you reach out to the employees for "the referral", what does this even mean? If the person knows you, worked with you, or went to college with you, then they can refer you, but if they haven't even met you and don't even know if you're real, what are you asking them to do? "Hey boss I got this email from this guy he says he's a good fit for this role we have open, do you wanna hire him?", is that it?

DO research the company. DO research the role, the team, the manager, the environment, the toolsets, the issues they're facing. Do NOT flood people's inboxes asking for "referrals" whatever that means.

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#22

Post by biophysboy »

Why isn't there a job search website that forces you to adopt this targeted bet strategy? The game theory of job-hunting incentivizes both submitters and receivers to adopt inefficient practices. Why not limit applications to one per day to signal genuine interest? Then you can demonstrate skill at an in-person interview, or at your local legally-bound interview center? (my very boring sci-fi prediction)

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#23

Post by leeny »

This is very good advice. Because OP doesn't talk about how to write emails, here's how to write good cold emails to hiring managers/employees/CEOs: https://interviewing.io/blog/how-to-get-in-the-door-at-top-c...

P.S. I'm CEO of a Series A company. I get a lot of email from prospective candidates. I never hold it against them, and as long as it doesn't look like spam, I reply. Telling people not to send emails (I saw a bunch of that in the comments) is categorically bad advice.

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#24

Post by pavlus »

biophysboy wrote: post #22

Why isn't there a job search website that forces you to adopt this targeted bet strategy? The game theory of job-hunting incentivizes both submitters and receivers to adopt inefficient practices. Why not limit applications to one per day to signal genuine interest? Then you can demonstrate skill at an in-person interview, or at your local legally-bound interview center? (my very boring sci-fi prediction)

Using spray-and-pray job-sites allows employers to analyze the market, so they can feel the quality, quantity and the price of proposition, to negotiate wages and assess if they can afford to hire to grow, or shrink to get lean.

Connecting the employer with employed to be is not the core proposition.

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#25

Post by cj »

leeny wrote: post #23

This is very good advice. Because OP doesn't talk about how to write emails, here's how to write good cold emails to hiring managers/employees/CEOs: https://interviewing.io/blog/how-to-get-in-the-door-at-top-c... P.S. I'm CEO of a Series A company. I get a lot of email from prospective candidates. I never hold it against them, and as long as it doesn't look like spam, I reply. Telling people not to send emails (I saw…

I also regularly get cold emails from candidates. Most often for marketing roles, rarely for technical roles.

Cold emailing definitely wont hurt your chances at the job.

But to be effective, the outreach needs to be heavily tailored and personalized. You need to make it obvious you aren’t copy and pasting the email to 20 other people.

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#26

Post by drillsteps5 »

hansvm wrote: post #5
lbrito wrote: post #4

>Get in contact with current employees at the company. It is important that you send more than one email. I've gotten dozens of emails asking for meetings and referrals. The only time I actually respond to these is after the second email. Please, no. Go through the proper channels like everyone else. If you have a referral - great. Otherwise, DON'T spam current employees you randomly find on linkedin or whatever. I g…

Some people don't though, and their referrals are much more valuable than dozens of additional applications. Much like many other decisions you're making in the job market, it's a polarizing choice that increases your overall chances when the alienated class of people isn't too large. If 90% of people ignore those emails but your chance of getting a first-round interview goes up 5x compared to a cold application when…

Soooo... My guess is the next step in evolution of automated resume submission apps will be looking up hiring manager (or above) and sending a tailored email to "decrease false rejection rate". Can we expect a "Show HN" post with this feature soon?

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#27

Post by pavlus »

nemomarx wrote: post #15
guessmyname wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't do that. > Don't never ever EVER do that. Why not? Is the world really going to implode because someone wants a job so badly that they slip a message into some random CEO’s inbox, an inbox that’s probably already flooded with irrelevant emails from strangers asking irrelevant things? Don’t ever convince yourself that someone is so important you can’t email them. That’s a self-defeating mindset. Send the email…

I guess the risk is that if the CEO doesn't like getting bothered and remembers your name, it might hurt your chances being hired in other ways?

Would you like to work for a company, where CEO is busy reprimanding people looking for a job, instead of doing his actual job, anyway?

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#28

Post by antonymoose »

guessmyname wrote: post #9
drillsteps5 wrote: post #6

> Instead of applying broadly, identify 5-10 specific opportunities you genuinely want. Do that. >Get in contact with current employees at the company. It is important that you send more than one email. Don't do that. >I've gotten dozens of emails asking for meetings and referrals. I've never gotten one in my entire career, and I was hiring manager in multiple companies/roles. >If the company is Don't never ever EVER…

> Don't do that. > Don't never ever EVER do that. Why not? Is the world really going to implode because someone wants a job so badly that they slip a message into some random CEO’s inbox, an inbox that’s probably already flooded with irrelevant emails from strangers asking irrelevant things? Don’t ever convince yourself that someone is so important you can’t email them. That’s a self-defeating mindset. Send the email…

A judicious email to the hiring manager? Sure, why not roll the dice.

We’ve had candidates spam our every Senior+ level staff at my current job (many not even in the relevant department) trying to get their resume boosted.

Those went from candidate to rejects very quickly.

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#29

Post by lbrito »

hansvm wrote: post #5
lbrito wrote: post #4

>Get in contact with current employees at the company. It is important that you send more than one email. I've gotten dozens of emails asking for meetings and referrals. The only time I actually respond to these is after the second email. Please, no. Go through the proper channels like everyone else. If you have a referral - great. Otherwise, DON'T spam current employees you randomly find on linkedin or whatever. I g…

Some people don't though, and their referrals are much more valuable than dozens of additional applications. Much like many other decisions you're making in the job market, it's a polarizing choice that increases your overall chances when the alienated class of people isn't too large. If 90% of people ignore those emails but your chance of getting a first-round interview goes up 5x compared to a cold application when…

The flaw in that thought is that doing this nagging is thinking about it as a zero-effort thing you can do to increase your odds. It is not zero-effort. You (candidate) will have to expend time looking up people and messaging them.

There are more effective ways of spending your time than that.

Re: Targeted Bets: An alternative approach to the job hunt

#30

Post by drillsteps5 »

hansonkd wrote: post #16
drillsteps5 wrote: post #6

> Instead of applying broadly, identify 5-10 specific opportunities you genuinely want. Do that. >Get in contact with current employees at the company. It is important that you send more than one email. Don't do that. >I've gotten dozens of emails asking for meetings and referrals. I've never gotten one in my entire career, and I was hiring manager in multiple companies/roles. >If the company is Don't never ever EVER…

Idk, that is terrible advice. I've known several people who got hired because they emailed the CEO of 5-20 person startups. Heck my CEO asks me all the time that people are messaging him and if i think they are interesting enough to hire.

If it's 5 person company they likely don't have HR or recruiting and the CEO is likely doing the hiring (for VPs/Directors/etc). In that case of course you would communicate with them directly, they are effectively a hiring manager and don't have HR to outsource the hiring to.

If the company has a person/group dedicated to hiring then going around them is counterproductive. IMHO of course!

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