Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

patreon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 53 posts

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#21

Post by klez »

somenameforme wrote: post #16
b473a wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At $10/mo for access even if he's not doing it for profit he's absolutely making bank. Verge in 2022 estimated about $20,000 a month [1]. CDPR has an explicit policy allowing free mods with a tip jar, but not mods that are pay-only. Whether or not you agree with that policy it's CDPR's right to make that decision, and you can't complain when they enforce it. 1: https://www.theverge.com/23190201/luke-ross-vr-real-mod-…

How is it their right to make that decision? This is taking the whole 'you don't actually own this game' to a whole new level when trying to dictate what mods you can use with it. The digital world needs a major reboot in terms of consumer rights, and this should happen sooner rather than later as companies are increasingly trying to take this into the real world by attaching software to hardware and then seeking to…

But they're not going after people who use the mod. They're going after someone who's profiting off of their IP. Someone else said upthread that CDPR doesn't go after people who make free mods (or donationware) so it's clear they don't have a problem with mods per se.

I'm not saying I agree with their stance, but we're talking about different matters entirely.

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#22

Post by nottorp »

Y_Y wrote: post #11
Jiro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 9th circuit you would have to get https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Star_v._FormGen_Inc . overruled.

There are a handful of relevant fair use cases, e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nin... .

CDPR is a Polish company though, so how is US law relevant?

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#23

Post by [deleted] »

somenameforme wrote: post #16
b473a wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At $10/mo for access even if he's not doing it for profit he's absolutely making bank. Verge in 2022 estimated about $20,000 a month [1]. CDPR has an explicit policy allowing free mods with a tip jar, but not mods that are pay-only. Whether or not you agree with that policy it's CDPR's right to make that decision, and you can't complain when they enforce it. 1: https://www.theverge.com/23190201/luke-ross-vr-real-mod-…

How is it their right to make that decision? This is taking the whole 'you don't actually own this game' to a whole new level when trying to dictate what mods you can use with it. The digital world needs a major reboot in terms of consumer rights, and this should happen sooner rather than later as companies are increasingly trying to take this into the real world by attaching software to hardware and then seeking to…

[deleted]

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#24

Post by somenameforme »

klez wrote: post #21
somenameforme wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it their right to make that decision? This is taking the whole 'you don't actually own this game' to a whole new level when trying to dictate what mods you can use with it. The digital world needs a major reboot in terms of consumer rights, and this should happen sooner rather than later as companies are increasingly trying to take this into the real world by attaching software to hardware and then seeking to…

But they're not going after people who use the mod. They're going after someone who's profiting off of their IP. Someone else said upthread that CDPR doesn't go after people who make free mods (or donationware) so it's clear they don't have a problem with mods per se. I'm not saying I agree with their stance, but we're talking about different matters entirely.

Depending on your age the term Game Genie [1] probably brings back some fond memories. If it was before your time, it was a hardware device - a mod, you could attach to video game devices that would enable you to tweak the memory of the game in real time enabling you to do all sorts of things, mostly it was used for stuff like infinite lives or whatever but you could also do neat things like tweak the gravity in games.

The neat thing is that the device was completely unapproved by the device IP owners, most notably - Nintendo. It required the creators to reverse engineer the NES, crack their anti-pirate measures, and then finally enable a nice interface for users to 'hack' games at the end of it. And then for the icing on the cake they then bought copies of every single NES game, 'cracked' them, and published, and sold, books with codes for specific games precisely profiting off players of these games.

Nintendo tried to sue, and lost. They appealed, and lost. The Game Genie wasn't violating Nintendo's IP, they weren't even harming their sales in any way, shape, or fashion - they probably helped them, if anything. And so it was a pretty much open and shut case with all the legal wrangling lasting mere months. And the exact same is true here. As a fun aside this even set the precedent for legally selling games on consoles without the approval of the console IP owner.

The point is that a derivative work has to be a derivative work, not just something that works with your IP. And this just sounds like a mod that hacks in VR capability for dozens of games that don't otherwise support it. I imagine they'll comply simply because going to court against just one of those companies is going to be a lot easier than fighting it, but it's a shame. Mainstream success seems to have turned into a terrible curse for CDPR.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Genie

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#25

Post by PetitPrince »

b473a wrote: post #10
chmod775 wrote: post #5

Meanwhile thousands of modders make some money on nexusmods from their Cyberpunk mods. My Cyberpunk mods get me like 200 USD/month in passive income. Why is this guy getting singled out?

CDPR's policy is you can have a tip jar but you can't put it behind a paywall. Dude was asking $10/mo on Patreon for access. I imagine he does quite well because he has the same mod for a lot of other games. Pretty sure he could rerelease it for free and ask for donations.

"he has the same mod" is downplaying it. He's adding VR for games with widely different engines. Same functionality yes, but vastly different codebase.

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#26

Post by like_any_other »

somenameforme wrote: post #24
klez wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they're not going after people who use the mod. They're going after someone who's profiting off of their IP. Someone else said upthread that CDPR doesn't go after people who make free mods (or donationware) so it's clear they don't have a problem with mods per se. I'm not saying I agree with their stance, but we're talking about different matters entirely.

Depending on your age the term Game Genie [1] probably brings back some fond memories. If it was before your time, it was a hardware device - a mod, you could attach to video game devices that would enable you to tweak the memory of the game in real time enabling you to do all sorts of things, mostly it was used for stuff like infinite lives or whatever but you could also do neat things like tweak the gravity in game…

> they weren't even harming their sales in any way, shape, or fashion - they probably helped them, if anything.

I would like an even stronger precedent, to say that even if sales are harmed, it's non-infringing. E.g. a car aftermarket customization that improves performance so that it is equivalent to a more expensive model of the same brand, thus harming profits of that car brand. Or hell, just plain old regular repairs, so one can keep an old car for longer.

We don't owe it to corporations to protect their business models.

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#27

Post by happymellon »

klez wrote: post #21
somenameforme wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it their right to make that decision? This is taking the whole 'you don't actually own this game' to a whole new level when trying to dictate what mods you can use with it. The digital world needs a major reboot in terms of consumer rights, and this should happen sooner rather than later as companies are increasingly trying to take this into the real world by attaching software to hardware and then seeking to…

But they're not going after people who use the mod. They're going after someone who's profiting off of their IP. Someone else said upthread that CDPR doesn't go after people who make free mods (or donationware) so it's clear they don't have a problem with mods per se. I'm not saying I agree with their stance, but we're talking about different matters entirely.

> I'm not saying I agree with their stance, but we're talking about different matters entirely.

I don't see any difference between a paid or free mod. Were CD Projekt losing out on sales of the VR DLC?

> They're going after someone who's profiting off of their IP.

They are going after someone who is making their IP more valuable. I missed Cyberpunk the first time around due to the initial bad reviews and then not having time after they fixed them.

With Valve coming out with their VR headset I am considering getting one, and looking at VR games, Cyberpunk with the mod was going to be a purchase.

Now they have just lost a sale.

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#28

Post by happymellon »

nottorp wrote: post #22
Y_Y wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a handful of relevant fair use cases, e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nin... .

CDPR is a Polish company though, so how is US law relevant?

Because they invoked DMCA?

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#29

Post by maratc »

nottorp wrote: post #22
Y_Y wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a handful of relevant fair use cases, e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nin... .

CDPR is a Polish company though, so how is US law relevant?

DMCA is US law, that's how.

Re: CD Projekt issue DMCA takedown notice against popular Cyberpunk VR mod

#30

Post by zvqcMMV6Zcr »

marak830 wrote: post #19
somenameforme wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it their right to make that decision? This is taking the whole 'you don't actually own this game' to a whole new level when trying to dictate what mods you can use with it. The digital world needs a major reboot in terms of consumer rights, and this should happen sooner rather than later as companies are increasingly trying to take this into the real world by attaching software to hardware and then seeking to…

I agree, that do not(should not) have a leg to stand on here. They might not like the fact, but the dev is selling his software, not theirs. It would be akin to MS sending a take down request to software running on windows. I wonder how much "strength" the tos really has in this case.

The term "derivative work" covers a lot. For example all fan translations are one and all content stored on movie subtitles sites is by definition illegal. I don't know about those particular VR mods but in general case it is easy to show that game mod is not a standalone work and counts as derivative work, so game developer can limit the distribution however they want.
Post reply on HN