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Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

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Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#21

Post by willglynn »

guyinblackshirt wrote: post #13

If Amazon is down in the US, would this work? The fact that they mention “any Amazon customer can access this” makes me think it’s intermingled / not cleanly separated and isolated from US infrastructure

AWS has the notion of "partitions", which is a technical boundary encompassing multiple regions. This mostly doesn't come up, but it does poke through in certain implementation details, like how AMI manifests for groups of regions (partitions) need to be encrypted for different public keys. Each partition has a specific region which must be targeted for certain partition-wide actions, such as managing IAM endpoints in other regions.

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/whitepapers/latest/aws-fault-iso...

Normal AWS (`aws`) traces to `us-east-1`. AWS GovCloud (US) (`aws-us-gov`) is distinct, based in `us-gov-west-1`. AWS in China (`aws-cn`) is distinct again, based in `cn-north-1`.

The AWS European Sovereign Cloud is implemented as a distinct partition – `aws-eusc` based in `eusc-de-east-1` – so it has exactly as much in common with normal AWS as AWS GovCloud (US) or AWS in China.

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#22

Post by rapsey »

SteveNuts wrote: post #18
whatever1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately everyone reports to the CEO. They will just put enough Amazon CEOs to jail, until one grants access.

On the list of the things I doubt nowadays, an Amazon or Amazon subsidiary CEO going to jail is way up at the top. They’ll get a national security letter for sure, but no one’s going to jail.

You don't get to be the size of amazon and not be completely cooperative with the three letter agencies.

Thinking Amazon is going to be some sort of resistance is just incredibly naive. They are an extension of US power, not an independent entity.

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#23

Post by nprateem »

jeremyjh wrote: post #17
whatever1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately everyone reports to the CEO. They will just put enough Amazon CEOs to jail, until one grants access.

Yes let's talk about all the billionaire CEOs that get sent to prison. Anyway, the entire structure and premise of this business is that they cannot do that. A court cannot put a CEO in jail just because partner businesses do not follow his orders. Do you think it is maybe remotely possible, that Amazons lawyers and architects understand this a little bit better than you do? I'm thinking they checked it out, they che…

> Do you think it is maybe remotely possible, that Amazons lawyers and architects understand this a little bit better than you do?

Or they just want to make lots of money

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#24

Post by nprateem »

10729287 wrote: post #5
willmarch wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an attempt to not lose European customers that might be tempted to migrate to Europe-based solutions in the current political climate. In the event of a serious trade war (like you suggested) and/or a real war, it gives some assurances; which is smart based on the threats from the current unpredictable and authoritarian U.S. administration. But it probably started as a way to comply with EU laws more easily, so…

How much can we trust this so-called sovereign cloud? That's a sincere question. I can't think of a more American company than Amazon, and I find it hard to believe that it could be completely independent from its American headquarters. I really hope that Europe will get its act together rather than relying on this half-hearted solution.

Not at all. Trump applies any leverage he can. "Nice US cloud you've got there... would be a shame if anything happened to it..."

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#25

Post by piccirello »

guyinblackshirt wrote: post #13

If Amazon is down in the US, would this work? The fact that they mention “any Amazon customer can access this” makes me think it’s intermingled / not cleanly separated and isolated from US infrastructure

The docs explicitly describe this cloud's independence from the US.

> The AWS European Sovereign Cloud will be capable of operation without dependency on global AWS systems so that the AWS European Sovereign Cloud will remain viable for operating workloads indefinitely even in the face of exceptional circumstances that could isolate the AWS European Sovereign Cloud from AWS resources located outside the EU, such as catastrophic disruption of transatlantic communications infrastructure or a military or geopolitical crisis threatening the sovereignty of EU member states.

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#26

Post by piccirello »

> We’re gradually transitioning the AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated exclusively by EU citizens located in the EU. During this transition period, we will continue to work with a blended team of EU residents and EU citizens located in the EU.

I find it fascinating that the goal is to staff this exclusively with EU citizens, thereby excluding non-citizen residents of the EU.

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#27

Post by mschuster91 »

jeremyjh wrote: post #17
whatever1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately everyone reports to the CEO. They will just put enough Amazon CEOs to jail, until one grants access.

Yes let's talk about all the billionaire CEOs that get sent to prison. Anyway, the entire structure and premise of this business is that they cannot do that. A court cannot put a CEO in jail just because partner businesses do not follow his orders. Do you think it is maybe remotely possible, that Amazons lawyers and architects understand this a little bit better than you do? I'm thinking they checked it out, they che…

> A court cannot put a CEO in jail just because partner businesses do not follow his orders.

In the US, rule of law does not matter any more in practice. That is the problem. You can't even say it's "rule by mob" - at least the mob had an honor codex, the current administration doesn't give a single flying fuck about anything any more. Might makes right.

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#28

Post by spookie »

whatever1 wrote: post #19
jeremyjh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes let's talk about all the billionaire CEOs that get sent to prison. Anyway, the entire structure and premise of this business is that they cannot do that. A court cannot put a CEO in jail just because partner businesses do not follow his orders. Do you think it is maybe remotely possible, that Amazons lawyers and architects understand this a little bit better than you do? I'm thinking they checked it out, they che…

MS lawyers could not do it (MS testified in France that they cannot). What make us believe that Amazon lawyers can?

Adding source for this:

Transcribed (not translated): https://www.senat.fr/compte-rendu-commissions/20250609/ce_co...

Video: https://videos.senat.fr/video.5460497_6847c70b82594

Reports by third parties:

https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/25/microsoft_admits_it_c...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2025/07/22/micro...

Edit/note: The main point AWS makes is indeed by whom/where this offering is operated. But, Microsoft stated that even though they made an environment so that the data lives entirely within the EU they may be compelled to transmit the data back.

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#29

Post by Ao7bei3s »

piccirello wrote: post #26

> We’re gradually transitioning the AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated exclusively by EU citizens located in the EU. During this transition period, we will continue to work with a blended team of EU residents and EU citizens located in the EU. I find it fascinating that the goal is to staff this exclusively with EU citizens, thereby excluding non-citizen residents of the EU.

It's similar to FedRAMP systems like AWS GovCloud (US), which can only be accessed by someone who is a US person (US citizen or lawful permanent resident) and on US soil (physically in the US at the time of access).

Re: Opening the AWS European Sovereign Cloud

#30

Post by nickysielicki »

piccirello wrote: post #26

> We’re gradually transitioning the AWS European Sovereign Cloud to be operated exclusively by EU citizens located in the EU. During this transition period, we will continue to work with a blended team of EU residents and EU citizens located in the EU. I find it fascinating that the goal is to staff this exclusively with EU citizens, thereby excluding non-citizen residents of the EU.

It's a regulatory requirement:

> Replicating a broadly practiced mitigation mechanism that is established in EU institution and government hiring practices, operational control and access will be restricted to EU citizens located in the EU to ensure that all operators have enduring ties to the EU and to meet the needs of our customers and partners.

- https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/aws/aws-european-sovereign-c...

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