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Common misunderstandings about large software companies

philipotoole.com

21–30 of 57 posts

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#21

Many of the author's rebuttals hinge on the assumption that everyone in an organisation is acting in its interest first - and not their own, often conflicting, self-interest. As such, they are not particularly convincing. Large organisations absolutely do, as a function of their scale, produce pockets where slackers and incompetents can hide. They'll surround themselves with a web of process, pointless meetings, and…

I think this is akin to x% of the worker ants doing all the work. Once you get to a big enough scale and have to delegate I'm sure every company hits this.

I just wish we didn't have to rely on hiring 100 on paper workers for 5 excellent people committed to the company...

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#22
I've spent 20+ years in the industry seeking to understand first, and my conclusions have pretty consistently been that the systems are broken and inefficient as people already talk about. The caveat I'd add is that the critics themselves would also be just as much as a crapshoot.

Honestly it sounds to me like the author doesn't truly understand the inherent conflicts of interest at a large company. For example a really common anti-pattern is "Nobody knows X thing is a problem my team manages in a problem (e.g. our app eats battery usage), but if I draw attention to it they'll want to measure it forever. So do not make it a focus."

In short pretty much never does any employees/manager's/executives interest align with the company.

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#23
> At very large software companies, programming ability, technical expertise, and raw resources are not the limiting factors. Coordination is.

If coordination is your limiting factor I'd argue that it shouldn't be, and you're not investing enough in removing it as a factor. Companies can use various tools to do this, for example:

* Defining directly responsible individuals / single-threaded leaders so that every choice doesn't involve massive coordination

* Putting people who work together in the office sitting next to each other most days of the week

* Or, for remote work, having a strong culture of async communication that is visible to the broader group by default, for example with Slack

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#24
post #23

> At very large software companies, programming ability, technical expertise, and raw resources are not the limiting factors. Coordination is. If coordination is your limiting factor I'd argue that it shouldn't be, and you're not investing enough in removing it as a factor. Companies can use various tools to do this, for example: * Defining directly responsible individuals / single-threaded leaders so that every choi…

> * Defining directly responsible individuals / single-threaded leaders so that every choice doesn't involve massive coordination

Obviously doing this makes sense when possible, but in cases where you see it, it's usually due to a fair amount of work to have made this possible.

To give a simple example, I work on a class of problems that require a VP level approval for new instances of $thing. I've gotten this down to a pretty straightforward process where I can work with folks who are proposing a new instance, get things working, and then the VP usually is happy to stamp the work we've already done. Though in some cases they aren't, and they have (good, probing) questions or changes they'd like us to make. But that's only possible because I have a longstanding relationship with the set of folks who ultimately approve this kind of thing, I have worked with them on a process that they like, and I have the experience to shepherd things effectively, and their trust and buy-in. And I'd argue that my case is pretty simple, because while there are a handful of responsible people that I could go to, there's rarely any individual concerned.

Consider a different, relatively common case, of a client and a server that are owned by different teams. The client wants a feature in the server, and perhaps is willing to do some development and loan headcount to implement the feature. Who is the single responsible party here?

It should probably be either the manager of the client server team or the mutual manager of both if the teams are fairly close in the wider org, but then you have multiple indirect layers between the people doing the work (client team members) and the accountable person (server team manager), and that's the state you get to after you've done a bunch of coordination work and gotten everyone to agree to that division of labor and accountability.

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#25

Many of the author's rebuttals hinge on the assumption that everyone in an organisation is acting in its interest first - and not their own, often conflicting, self-interest. As such, they are not particularly convincing. Large organisations absolutely do, as a function of their scale, produce pockets where slackers and incompetents can hide. They'll surround themselves with a web of process, pointless meetings, and…

Indeed. Most people who seek employment at big tech do so because of the money, not because of the mission.

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#26

Many of the author's rebuttals hinge on the assumption that everyone in an organisation is acting in its interest first - and not their own, often conflicting, self-interest. As such, they are not particularly convincing. Large organisations absolutely do, as a function of their scale, produce pockets where slackers and incompetents can hide. They'll surround themselves with a web of process, pointless meetings, and…

I don't think I've ever worked at a company where slacking off was the problem. The vast majority of people want to do good work.

What I _have_ seen is several companies afflicted by this really strange characteristic of the software development industry: We appear to be the only industry on the planet where it is common to pick leaders (executives) that know nothing about the product or how it's made.

You can't run a bridge building company without knowing how to build a bridge. You can't run a law firm without knowing law.

You don't need to know all the nitty gritty - big picture is important - but understanding the product _in depth_ is a requirement in any business.

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#27

Many of the author's rebuttals hinge on the assumption that everyone in an organisation is acting in its interest first - and not their own, often conflicting, self-interest. As such, they are not particularly convincing. Large organisations absolutely do, as a function of their scale, produce pockets where slackers and incompetents can hide. They'll surround themselves with a web of process, pointless meetings, and…

I read it as saying that even if you solved the incentive misalignments, you would still have very similar annoying symptoms to what people complain about today. So you have to be careful in looking at any particular annoyance to disentangle which aspects of it are inherent complexity to a large company and which are BS. But I already believed that, so I may be steelmanning the article too much.

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#28

Someone who says there are too many meetings is probably actually saying they are having bad meetings. If they got value from those meetings, they wouldn't be complaining. So there is likely still a problem to address. Also, as a somewhat trivial side note, an instinctive reaction to not getting the clarity you need from a meeting is to ask for another meeting. So even if the optimal level of meetings is annoyingly h…

> bad meetings will probably push the level of (bad) meetings even higher

bad meetings beget bad meetings

> If they got value from those meetings, they wouldn't be complaining.

This part actually felt quite relevant. Several years in the govt, and there was definitely a difference. Many meetings that felt inane, or meaningless to even attend, where you constantly questioned why you're even there, or bothered to show. Much phone swiping, and social media browsing. Often 10x+ attendance to people that ever participated. I often felt weird even asking anything, cause nobody was participating, and it felt wrong to even try to understand the endless charts on-screen.

However, a rare few that honestly felt quite worthwhile. We arrived, discussed what needed to said, and left with a better comprehension of the situation and the tasks necessary.

Re: Common misunderstandings about large software companies

#30

Many of the author's rebuttals hinge on the assumption that everyone in an organisation is acting in its interest first - and not their own, often conflicting, self-interest. As such, they are not particularly convincing. Large organisations absolutely do, as a function of their scale, produce pockets where slackers and incompetents can hide. They'll surround themselves with a web of process, pointless meetings, and…

I don't think I've ever worked at a company where slacking off was the problem. The vast majority of people want to do good work. What I _have_ seen is several companies afflicted by this really strange characteristic of the software development industry: We appear to be the only industry on the planet where it is common to pick leaders (executives) that know nothing about the product or how it's made. You can't run…

Are you in a completely different world than me? Because even the CEO of Boeing is not an engineer. Larry Ellison The CEO of the biggest bank in my country holds a masters degree in business economics, but nothing related to finance, econometrics or risk management. The CEO of US steel is an accountant. Don't even get me started on the (non)education of some politicians.

Understanding the product is often important, but equally often it is something you can delegate to others. It's only the younglings that think intimate knowledge of the product is the hallmark of a great leader, because that is the only thing they themselves bring to the table.

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