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Xfce is great

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Re: Xfce is great

#21

Post by GrowingSideways »

dangus wrote: post #15
GrowingSideways wrote: post #8

[flagged]

You…ever see a screenshot of Gnome? This statement of yours is also a bit silly considering Linux desktops have way more in common with macOS than with Windows. They share a whole bunch of concepts like POSIX compliance, use the same shells, and they even share a package manager (Homebrew, which seems to be gaining a bit of Linux popularity lately). Even CUPS comes to mind.

Gnome is still a windows knockoff yea? Can you use readline bindings in a textfield?

Edit: I mean, usable text fields. Like you have on a mac. You hit control-a and it goes to the start of the field. The command key is for interacting with the application.

> You…ever see a screenshot of Gnome?

Let's talk usability, not bullshit. Also gnome looks like... the rest of computers. It has no usability and is indistinguishable from other windows knockoffs

Re: Xfce is great

#22

Post by Fiveplus »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #16
Fiveplus wrote: post #11

While I appreciate the author's enthusiasm for the traditional desktop metaphor, this analysis conflates interface familiarity with architectural efficiency . It is a pleasant sentiment please don't get me wrong but technically a bit short sighted. The author praises xfce's modularity and unix-like separation of components (xfwm4, xfce4-panel, xfdesktop), failing to realize that this design pattern is actually a perf…

Can you quantify those performance problems? Would I notice them on a 2018 vintage laptop?

Hmm, I'd say that on a 2018-era machine, you won't measure this in raw CPU throughput. In all probablity, your cores are fast enough to mask the context switching. The performance deficit here is strictly in the domain of motion-to-photon latency or frame pacing. I guess my point is that in xfce's split architecture, the compositor acts as just another X11 client.

This enforces a path where window contents often round-trip through the X server before composition. Quantitatively, this typically adds at least one frame of input lag compared to the zero-copy direct scanout path available to monolithic wayland compositors. You likely won't notice this while editing text. However, the architecture doesn't perform well when you attach an external monitor. Since X11 shares a single virtual coordinate space, it cannot synchronize VBLANK across two outputs with different refresh rates or clock domains.

ps: and please don't call your 2018 machine vintage, it makes my secondary thinkpads feel prehistoric :D

Re: Xfce is great

#23

Post by nine_k »

tommica wrote: post #10

Xfce is really good, used to have it as a daily driver. His points about how they do not feel the need to change does seem correct, and it is amazing. As a windows user you should be able to figure it out pretty easily!

Xfce is pretty customizable. Out of the box it may look like OSX, or like Windows. But you can make it fit your needs, not adjust yourself to the machine and somebody's design decisions, or (often) lack thereof.

Unlike Gnome, Xfce is pretty un-opinionated; I can do away with everything that annoys me in Gnome, macOS, and Windows, while keeping the good bits, and having many more good bits none of these offer.

Re: Xfce is great

#24

Post by cosmic_cheese »

dangus wrote: post #15
GrowingSideways wrote: post #8

[flagged]

You…ever see a screenshot of Gnome? This statement of yours is also a bit silly considering Linux desktops have way more in common with macOS than with Windows. They share a whole bunch of concepts like POSIX compliance, use the same shells, and they even share a package manager (Homebrew, which seems to be gaining a bit of Linux popularity lately). Even CUPS comes to mind.

Gnome is only similar to macOS in the most superficial of ways. You don't even have to go beyond skin-deep for the illusion to start to fall apart. It compares more closely to iPadOS or Android in desktop mode.

Linux desktops in general skew either Windows-like or ultra-minimal tiling thing.

Re: Xfce is great

#26

Post by dangus »

GrowingSideways wrote: post #21
dangus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You…ever see a screenshot of Gnome? This statement of yours is also a bit silly considering Linux desktops have way more in common with macOS than with Windows. They share a whole bunch of concepts like POSIX compliance, use the same shells, and they even share a package manager (Homebrew, which seems to be gaining a bit of Linux popularity lately). Even CUPS comes to mind.

Gnome is still a windows knockoff yea? Can you use readline bindings in a textfield? Edit: I mean, usable text fields. Like you have on a mac. You hit control-a and it goes to the start of the field. The command key is for interacting with the application. > You…ever see a screenshot of Gnome? Let's talk usability, not bullshit. Also gnome looks like... the rest of computers. It has no usability and is indistinguisha…

I am more confused than when we started, what exactly are you saying macOS is doing that nobody else is doing?

> use readline bindings in a textfield

I don’t even know what this means.

Re: Xfce is great

#27

Post by dangus »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #24
dangus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You…ever see a screenshot of Gnome? This statement of yours is also a bit silly considering Linux desktops have way more in common with macOS than with Windows. They share a whole bunch of concepts like POSIX compliance, use the same shells, and they even share a package manager (Homebrew, which seems to be gaining a bit of Linux popularity lately). Even CUPS comes to mind.

Gnome is only similar to macOS in the most superficial of ways. You don't even have to go beyond skin-deep for the illusion to start to fall apart. It compares more closely to iPadOS or Android in desktop mode. Linux desktops in general skew either Windows-like or ultra-minimal tiling thing.

I’m wildly confused at this claim. More like iPadOS, really??

Re: Xfce is great

#28

Post by Nursie »

Fiveplus wrote: post #11

While I appreciate the author's enthusiasm for the traditional desktop metaphor, this analysis conflates interface familiarity with architectural efficiency . It is a pleasant sentiment please don't get me wrong but technically a bit short sighted. The author praises xfce's modularity and unix-like separation of components (xfwm4, xfce4-panel, xfdesktop), failing to realize that this design pattern is actually a perf…

> In the Wayland era (which I must assume is the baseline context)

But that's not where we are, a lot of people still haven't moved and XFCE only has premliminary support for wayland at this time.

But it doesn't matter, xfce on X is still great.

Re: Xfce is great

#29

Post by voidfunc »

Reubend wrote: post #6

I love the idea of a minimal desktop environment, but I've never tried XFCE. Are there any themes that folks here would recommend to make it much prettier? I find the screenshots on their homepage very intuitive but a bit ugly.

> Are there any themes that folks here would recommend to make it much prettier?

You're probably not the target audience then. It's not a DE that prioritizes prettiness.

If you want something that looks like the 90's desktop metaphor, it's exactly that and it's really good at that.

Re: Xfce is great

#30

Post by electroly »

Fiveplus wrote: post #11

While I appreciate the author's enthusiasm for the traditional desktop metaphor, this analysis conflates interface familiarity with architectural efficiency . It is a pleasant sentiment please don't get me wrong but technically a bit short sighted. The author praises xfce's modularity and unix-like separation of components (xfwm4, xfce4-panel, xfdesktop), failing to realize that this design pattern is actually a perf…

XFCE is X11-only, isn't it? Wayland support is still in development/experimental. I personally use XFCE with X11 to this day.
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