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Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

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Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#21

Post by irjustin »

nxobject wrote: post #14
rconti wrote: post #5

It's notable that the annual ridership is up 47% in the FY ending June 2025 vs the FY ending June 2024, when electrification was only complete in September 2024-- in other words, it's not even a full year's worth of ridership increase. On the flip side, I find it shocking that ridership is still only 60% of pre-pandemic levels. Anecdotally, the increased service is a game-changer. Speed matters, too, a lot, but the f…

> On the flip side, I find it shocking that ridership is still only 60% of pre-pandemic levels. My understand is that it's been true of commuter rail everywhere - e.g. a Twin Cities commuter railroad has shut down as well due to declining ridership. https://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/news/M... Here's a relatively rigorous report from the GAO synthesizing cross-US experiences: https://www.gao.gov/bl…

Also WFH is still around. Sure RTO is being forced but it's not universal. Lots of orgs are still hybrid.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#22

Post by baby »

The Caltrain sucks though because taking a car is so much more fast/practical. I must have taken it once in 5y because it's just so far out in the city and not easy to access (and then super slow).

People in Europe take trains because it's a better alternative than driving!

Make subways land right in the train station in SF, then make the train faster, then you have something useful.

On the other hand I agree with the premise of the article. If you have high mobility in a state, the state will become reacher. Doesn't make sense to wait for national trains to be a thing, make sure people can easily move across your state without having to rely on having a car.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#24

Post by thot_experiment »

quotemstr wrote: post #2

Caltrain is functional, I guess, but it's one linear system. It doesn't even have express tracks. (It has a few four-tracked overtaking areas, but nothing pervasive.) Inside, basic electric power outlets are hard to find. Grade separation? Ridiculous fantasy. The route map hasn't expanded since 1992. Yeah, they've electrified the system. Congrats, I guess? The system is still a glorified people mover. It goes in one…

> Inside, basic electric power outlets are hard to find.

what are you talking about, literally every single seat has outlets except the 9 in the bottom of the bike car

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#25

Post by SamDc73 »

baby wrote: post #22

The Caltrain sucks though because taking a car is so much more fast/practical. I must have taken it once in 5y because it's just so far out in the city and not easy to access (and then super slow). People in Europe take trains because it's a better alternative than driving! Make subways land right in the train station in SF, then make the train faster, then you have something useful. On the other hand I agree with th…

The electric trains are a bit faster, but still slower than something like BART.

My main issues with Caltrain are the cost (public transit shouldn’t be more expensive than driving) and the schedule: depending on the station, missing a train can mean waiting 30-60 minutes.

also the Peninsula isn’t really built around trains. I still have to drive 5-10 minutes just to get to the station, then wait, then ride at that point it’s easier to just drive the whole way. If I lived within walking distance, I might use the train way more.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#26

Post by thot_experiment »

baby wrote: post #22

The Caltrain sucks though because taking a car is so much more fast/practical. I must have taken it once in 5y because it's just so far out in the city and not easy to access (and then super slow). People in Europe take trains because it's a better alternative than driving! Make subways land right in the train station in SF, then make the train faster, then you have something useful. On the other hand I agree with th…

You must be riding a different Caltrain, unless I'm on my motorcycle it's always faster to get anywhere in SF via Caltrain + bike from the peninsula during commute hours, it's not even close.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#27

Post by jerlam »

adastra22 wrote: post #18
jerlam wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect a regional system to connect an entire regional area. Caltrain connects two parts of the Bay Area: San Francisco and the South Bay. BART connects the entire East Bay to San Francisco. In a functioning system, they would both just be legs and not two completely separate systems. The only place they connect appears to be in Millbrae and not near any large hubs.

They will soon connect in San Jose.

I wouldn't consider "soon" to mean ten years.

Six miles, 12 billion dollars, opening in 2036.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley_BART_extension

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#29

Post by jasonfarnon »

jerlam wrote: post #9
pfannkuchen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It goes in one direction, turns around, and goes in the other direction. To be fair, the peninsula is basically a long hallway. I’m not really sure where else it would go?

I would expect a regional system to connect an entire regional area. Caltrain connects two parts of the Bay Area: San Francisco and the South Bay. BART connects the entire East Bay to San Francisco. In a functioning system, they would both just be legs and not two completely separate systems. The only place they connect appears to be in Millbrae and not near any large hubs.

Is the argument just that the MNR and NYC subway, or Boston's T and commuter rail, are better integrated than BART and the Caltrain? Seems pretty great now but then I remember before the renovations at 4th and King.

Re: Caltrain shows why every region should be moving toward regional rail

#30

Post by jedberg »

rconti wrote: post #5

It's notable that the annual ridership is up 47% in the FY ending June 2025 vs the FY ending June 2024, when electrification was only complete in September 2024-- in other words, it's not even a full year's worth of ridership increase. On the flip side, I find it shocking that ridership is still only 60% of pre-pandemic levels. Anecdotally, the increased service is a game-changer. Speed matters, too, a lot, but the f…

> On the flip side, I find it shocking that ridership is still only 60% of pre-pandemic levels.

It makes a lot of sense. Many companies went full remote during the pandemic and stayed that way, or if they went in person, it's only 60% of the time or less. And a lot of people left the area during the pandemic, and those that are returning are coming back to SF, not the suburbs.

I used to take the train every day for years, but I've only been on it once or twice since the pandemic.

To put it in startup terms, the TAM for ridership shrank considerably. They may very well be capturing a greater amount of the TAM than before the pandemic.

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