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Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

electrek.co

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Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#21

Post by nebula8804 »

jijijijij wrote: post #15

Walmart learned 20 years ago, not everyone wants the American way of life. Guess, US hubris entails the inability to learn from such mistakes. Thanks for the factory.

Man the US is the last giant standing. If the capitalists lose there, its game over. Before the events of the last few years I thought that maybe ultimately they were going to run to Israel or China if they lost the US. Both places are on shaky ground so probably not. If the US falls to Democratic Socialism, we could have a European style system across the entire western world. I hope to see it in my life.

Maybe that will be the lasting impact of Millenials and Gen Z: being a transition generation that finally kills this "unchecked capitalism" virus for enough time for humans to enter the next era successfully.

China may be a giant but those demographic issues will catch up to them so its really just the US thats the issue.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#23

Post by brianwawok »

nebula8804 wrote: post #14
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for obvious reasons I will never understand two things: 1. Why Musk made such a hard-right turn politically, alienating most of his customers. People on the left were always far more likely to buy an EV than those on the right. 2. Why traders continue to buy Tesla stock even as sales nose-dive. Because of the promise of Robotaxis? Tesla's P/E is so high that the Tesla Robotaxi would have to sell more rides than Ube…

>and other car makes are slowing down or cancelling EV developments. The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again. This back and forth is going to lead to disaster.

I’m not sure dems are willing to go out on a limb for EVs. Other environmental things sure, but EV has become kind of toxic over the last 5 years. Which is a shame.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#24

Post by nebula8804 »

brianwawok wrote: post #23
nebula8804 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and other car makes are slowing down or cancelling EV developments. The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again. This back and forth is going to lead to disaster.

I’m not sure dems are willing to go out on a limb for EVs. Other environmental things sure, but EV has become kind of toxic over the last 5 years. Which is a shame.

They pushed it hard during the Biden years. Thats partly why GM went so hard into it. If they manage to really elect an AOC type candidate next time, they will definitely go back to it. Maybe if they get a Fetterman like candidate, they will back off but I dont think thats going to happen given everything that has transpired election wise over the last year or so.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#25

Post by lovich »

nebula8804 wrote: post #14
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for obvious reasons I will never understand two things: 1. Why Musk made such a hard-right turn politically, alienating most of his customers. People on the left were always far more likely to buy an EV than those on the right. 2. Why traders continue to buy Tesla stock even as sales nose-dive. Because of the promise of Robotaxis? Tesla's P/E is so high that the Tesla Robotaxi would have to sell more rides than Ube…

>and other car makes are slowing down or cancelling EV developments. The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again. This back and forth is going to lead to disaster.

>The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again.

Ah yes, the terrible force of getting EV subsidies, which the Republicans have now cancelled causing the writeoff. How dare the Dems force the Republicans to do that?

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#26

Post by nebula8804 »

lovich wrote: post #25
nebula8804 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and other car makes are slowing down or cancelling EV developments. The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again. This back and forth is going to lead to disaster.

>The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again. Ah yes, the terrible force of getting EV subsidies, which the Republicans have now cancelled causing the writeoff. How dare the Dems f…

The $7,500 credit is not really what I am talking about. Most of the 7 Billion in investment came during the Biden years due to pressure (from the administration as well as investors). So the industry complied, spent the money, built all these factories, terminated ICE programs and supply chains and now they are forced to write off a lot of this investment because the market is not there in the US.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#27

Post by jdlshore »

nebula8804 wrote: post #26
lovich wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again. Ah yes, the terrible force of getting EV subsidies, which the Republicans have now cancelled causing the writeoff. How dare the Dems f…

The $7,500 credit is not really what I am talking about. Most of the 7 Billion in investment came during the Biden years due to pressure (from the administration as well as investors). So the industry complied, spent the money, built all these factories, terminated ICE programs and supply chains and now they are forced to write off a lot of this investment because the market is not there in the US.

What specifically was the nature of that pressure from the administration?

From the outside, it looks like classic Innovators’ Dilemma. Traditional automakers failing to adapt to a radically different drivetrain is practically guaranteed under Christensen’s hypothesis.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#28

Post by panick21_ »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
pstuart wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug abuse, boundless wealth, and surrounding yourself with sycophants can skew one's perception of reality.

He’s always been this person, the wealth just amplified it. Sometimes the wrong people fall into power. Sometimes we trust the wrong people. Most of life is luck. Take the ketamine, wealth, and sycophants away, he will still be this person. But without the power. Human condition is tricky.

He was not always the same person, certainty not politically. Like many other covid and a few other things had a major impact.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#29

Post by deeg »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
pstuart wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug abuse, boundless wealth, and surrounding yourself with sycophants can skew one's perception of reality.

He’s always been this person, the wealth just amplified it. Sometimes the wrong people fall into power. Sometimes we trust the wrong people. Most of life is luck. Take the ketamine, wealth, and sycophants away, he will still be this person. But without the power. Human condition is tricky.

I could imagine that years of ass kissing have made him worse.

Re: Are Tesla Gigafactory Berlin's days numbered?

#30

Post by panick21_ »

nebula8804 wrote: post #26
lovich wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The sales didn't materialize plus they were forced to do so by governments and short term investors that saw Tesla's stock shoot up. Now GM is writing off ~7 billion dollars. Whats worse is when Dems take back the white house, they will force the automakers to go back to green again. Ah yes, the terrible force of getting EV subsidies, which the Republicans have now cancelled causing the writeoff. How dare the Dems f…

The $7,500 credit is not really what I am talking about. Most of the 7 Billion in investment came during the Biden years due to pressure (from the administration as well as investors). So the industry complied, spent the money, built all these factories, terminated ICE programs and supply chains and now they are forced to write off a lot of this investment because the market is not there in the US.

Much of that money is inefficient infrastructure that didn't have that much of an effect. The car makers didn't go hard with EV because of politics. They got into it because Tesla was making 25% margin on mass market EV and it looked like EV were taking over in massive way. Politics didn't hurt but the direction was pretty clear.

The problem is the traditional companies fell all over-themselves making grand promises without having any understanding, and putting in huge amounts of money while having not enough understanding of the market and supply chain dynamics.

Announcing like 4 gigantic battery factories when you have never built a battery and you barley understand the supply chain for most of the components isn't a great plan.

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