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Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

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Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to see it positive. With the AI bubble, I finally habe a tangible example to point to when I say that GDP growth is a bad indicator for economic success

Unless you can demonstrate that there is in fact an AI bubble, that is simply begging the question. Notice how the term “housing bubble” is used much less frequently today than 10 years ago? That’s because that so-called bubble has been ballooning in size for three decades now, and almost nobody still believes that it will “burst” in any meaningful sense. The Dotcom bubble was in many ways an outlier.

> That’s because that so-called bubble has been ballooning in size for three decades now, and almost nobody still believes that it will “burst” in any meaningful sense.

That's because Boomers live far longer than prior generations thanks to medical advances. The housing bubble will collapse (at least outside of the megalopolises) once the Boomers finally start to die en masse due to their over-representation in demographics.

But before that, the pension systems will crash hard. For people in systems with redistributions (like most of Europe), there simply aren't enough working age people contributing payments for the pensioners, and for people in stonk-based systems (e.g. US 401k), they will run into the issue that someone has to buy the stocks that the pensioners sell off to fund their retirement, and ain't no one of my generation buying stocks, thanks to us having to spend insane amounts of rent.

Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to see it positive. With the AI bubble, I finally habe a tangible example to point to when I say that GDP growth is a bad indicator for economic success

Unless you can demonstrate that there is in fact an AI bubble, that is simply begging the question. Notice how the term “housing bubble” is used much less frequently today than 10 years ago? That’s because that so-called bubble has been ballooning in size for three decades now, and almost nobody still believes that it will “burst” in any meaningful sense. The Dotcom bubble was in many ways an outlier.

It's bursting as we speak, but certain actors are pulling every lever there is to slow down the process:

https://tradingeconomics.com/china/housing-index

Unsuccessfully, I might add.

Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#23
post #9

Do not mistake economic indicators such as GDP or "growth" for meaningful measures of economic health.

I try to see it positive. With the AI bubble, I finally habe a tangible example to point to when I say that GDP growth is a bad indicator for economic success

The book the 'Growth Delusion' has some great examples on this as well. To quote the FTs[1] review of the book.

"The official protocols define the scope of GDP as measuring all monetised activity between willing parties in a given period. It is a pragmatic definition, but leads to some counterintuitive results. The sale of stolen goods for cash contributes positively to GDP, for example — so theft is good for growth. A parent’s housework and childcare, however, being unpaid, are excluded — resulting, by one recent evaluation, in a $3.8 trillion underestimate of the size of the US economy."

I vaguely remember a similar one around traffic jams as well.

[1] https://www.ft.com/content/b6182440-f21e-11e7-bb7d-c3edfe974...

Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#24
Populism is best understood as the general public asserting elites have “broken the deal” that legitimizes their rule — and the public withdrawing their assent from the regime.

They are correct that the technocratic managerialists on the past century have failed — and failed in a way damaging to the state/nation. (For US and EU at least.) In so far as we’re all discussing that (and have been for several years), they’ve been wildly successful.

Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to see it positive. With the AI bubble, I finally habe a tangible example to point to when I say that GDP growth is a bad indicator for economic success

The book the 'Growth Delusion' has some great examples on this as well. To quote the FTs[1] review of the book. "The official protocols define the scope of GDP as measuring all monetised activity between willing parties in a given period. It is a pragmatic definition, but leads to some counterintuitive results. The sale of stolen goods for cash contributes positively to GDP, for example — so theft is good for growth.…

There is also a book called "Mismeasuring our lives" that makes some similar points about the overreliance on GDP as "the" measure of economic health.

Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#27
post #9

Do not mistake economic indicators such as GDP or "growth" for meaningful measures of economic health.

It is an indicator and it's not totally non-meaningful. But GDP growth, when it's at the price of increasing the public debt and inflation, is no real growth.

Instead of looking at the US, let's look at what used to be a relevant ally...

In the eurozone, for example, politicians are hiding the lack of growth behind a growing mountain of public debt and the GDP growth ain't even beating inflation since the 2008 crisis. In 2008 the eurozone represented about 25% of the world's GDP. Now it's not even 15% anymore.

Falling into irrelevancy doesn't begin to describe the state of things for the eurozone: from 25% of the world's GDP to less than 15% in 17 years is more than alarming.

And yet if you look at the eurozone in Euro, it looks like it's been growing since 2008. But it's actually been stuck since nearly two decades now and there aren't signs of anything getting any better in the eurozone. German carmarkers, the number one export of the eurozone, are in huge trouble (with China eating their lunch).

The US and China are, obviously, less fucked than the eurozone but the USA's growth has also been achieved at the cost of a runaway public debt and runaway inflation.

I don't know what protectionism can and cannot do for the US and it's not clear if manufacturing can really come back to the US but one thing is certain: the eurozone is a failure and whatever it is that they did or do should definitely not be copied. Unelected bureaucrats have managed, in 17 years, to drive the eurozone into the ground. It's mostly true for non-eurozone EU countries as well but some, like Poland (which is in the EU but not in the eurozone), are doing fine.

Basically: if you want to slash your part of the world's GDP by 40% in 17 years, do what the eurozone did.

Now we must understand this: the eurozone didn't just slash it's part of the global GDP by 40% in 17 years... They did so while, at the same time, creating a gigantic mountain of public debt and experiencing inflation.

Another 17 years of this, so another 40% loss, and the eurozone would only represent 9% of the world's GDP. And these unelected bureaucrats are so incompetent that I don't discard the possibility that they'll actually be able to crash the eurozone even faster than that. For example at the moment, while german carmarkers are in trouble, EU bureaucrats are hard at work trying to kill them for good.

Anti-americanism and anti-trumpism is a thing on HN but people should really look more closely at what's happening elsewhere.

What about an article from The Economist as to the reasons the eurozone managed to lose 40% of their share of the world's GDP since the 2008 financial crisis?

Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#28
post #25
post #9

Do not mistake economic indicators such as GDP or "growth" for meaningful measures of economic health.

What is a good measure of meaningful growth? Genuinely asking. I imagine all measures have pros and cons.

Infant mortality

Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#29

Well in the U.S., a majority of households are invested in the stock market via 401(k)’s. When their investments do well, the average Joe will give the incumbent president the credit.

Only if there’s a net increase in their well-being.

If their 401k is up, but so is cost of living and job prospects are down, most families are not invested enough to view that as a positive.

Re: Do not mistake a resilient global economy for populist success

#30
post #9

Do not mistake economic indicators such as GDP or "growth" for meaningful measures of economic health.

It is an indicator and it's not totally non-meaningful. But GDP growth, when it's at the price of increasing the public debt and inflation, is no real growth. Instead of looking at the US, let's look at what used to be a relevant ally... In the eurozone, for example, politicians are hiding the lack of growth behind a growing mountain of public debt and the GDP growth ain't even beating inflation since the 2008 crisis…

US looks everything except being "less fucked" as eurozone. It is actively self destructing while mounting debt while, true, trying to destruct everyone else.
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