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Open Infrastructure Map

openinframap.org

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Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#21

Post by misiek08 »

Towaway69 wrote: post #14
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? The benefits of openly sharing this info greatly outweight the risks. I heard multiple times that professionals in the energy sector relied on shitty, difficult to obtain and incomplete information until the open source revolution. Soviet Union heavily edited publicly available maps, although it had great cartography for the military-industrial complex. And where it is now?

So what? Have I said that it's bad or good? I was just pointing out that yes, apparently data like this does get used in for bad things. I am not judging, as you seem to assume, I'm pointing out. It's a pity that others aren't as broad minded to consider both or all sides of technology. Technology isn't always automatically an improvement of the current situation. Yes it might solve the obvious problem but there are…

If you are not interested in disrupting the grid then yes - you implied it’s bad. You only mentioned the bad sides of such info being widely available.

And like already mentioned in more nested comments - it’s not difficult to get such info if you are determined enough.

Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#22

Post by gehsty »

lnsru wrote: post #3
efskap wrote: post #2

I find this site so fascinating, seeing how all the massive power lines are hooked up to far-away power plants and gradually have their voltage stepped down as they connect to consumers. All the undersea cables and pipelines I didn't know about.

It’s really interesting how perception of openness changes over time. During cold war publishing this information would send one directly to gulag.

It’s a double edged sword - secrecy leads to accidental damage by fishermen & anchors, so generally you want your cables and pipes charted.

There are cables not on this map that are uncharted for things like acoustic monitoring & finger printing of vessels.

Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#23

Post by pbmonster »

a1371 wrote: post #18

An initially-stupid-sounding idea I heard a while back was running power cables through the ocean floors between America and the rest of the world. It's apparently feasible and the big benefit of it is that at the grid peak hour when the sun is not shining in Europe, they can get cheap solar from America and vice versa

Yeah, ultra high voltage DC power lines have something like 3.5% loss per 1000km. American sun belt to European sun belt is at least 6000km, so you just gotta eat the 20% loss. Same ballpark as pumped hydro storage.

6000km sounds like a lot, but the Chinese have built a 3000km UHVDC line delivering 12 GW, and putting down submarine communications cables this long is complete routine today. Would be interesting how much aluminium/lead/copper such a project would take. EDIT: found a supplier that specifies a 1GW cable at 7000 tons per spool. A spool is 130km of cable, so that's 350 000 tons of cable per GW for the transatlantic link. So just the raw aluminium is around a billion dollars per GW.

Anyway, first we have to properly connect those two sun belts to the rest of their own continental masses with UHVDC, then we have a lot of political problems to solve, and then we can check battery prices...

Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#24

Post by einpoklum »

efskap wrote: post #2

I find this site so fascinating, seeing how all the massive power lines are hooked up to far-away power plants and gradually have their voltage stepped down as they connect to consumers. All the undersea cables and pipelines I didn't know about.

Me too. I particularly recommend looking at the wind farms East of the UK and North of the Northern coast of Europe, and their connections back to land by power lines. Not something you think about when you imagine those seas looking at a regular map.

https://openinframap.org/#5.48/54.077/2.676

Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#26

Post by paganel »

Excellent link, thank you for posting!

Wanted to do a map of the power network here in Romania, hadn't thought to check if anything similar already existed, or I couldn't find it myself, at least, but it seems like this map has (almost) all that I wanted to do in that respect, including the position of the power poles on the ground.

Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#27

Post by lnsru »

gehsty wrote: post #22
lnsru wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really interesting how perception of openness changes over time. During cold war publishing this information would send one directly to gulag.

It’s a double edged sword - secrecy leads to accidental damage by fishermen & anchors, so generally you want your cables and pipes charted. There are cables not on this map that are uncharted for things like acoustic monitoring & finger printing of vessels.

I have license for boat and use nautical maps. They show me a cable, but not the hierarchy of the infrastructure. I see a cable, but can’t evaluate if half of town stays without electricity or only an island with dozen houses if I damage it.

However the available maps do not stop russian ships regularly dropping anchors on European infrastructure in Baltic see. Obviously charting them does not help. Maybe they should stay secret at the end.

Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#28

Post by bibelo »

einpoklum wrote: post #24
efskap wrote: post #2

I find this site so fascinating, seeing how all the massive power lines are hooked up to far-away power plants and gradually have their voltage stepped down as they connect to consumers. All the undersea cables and pipelines I didn't know about.

Me too. I particularly recommend looking at the wind farms East of the UK and North of the Northern coast of Europe, and their connections back to land by power lines. Not something you think about when you imagine those seas looking at a regular map. https://openinframap.org/#5.48/54.077/2.676

Amaze!

Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#29

Post by defrost »

kelseydh wrote: post #25

The map for Australia is interesting. Is this missing data? See no infrastructure for Alice Springs in the interior of Australia.

Missing data and incomplete layers I'd say.

I know the areas from Alice west to the coast and north to the equator fairly well.

Rail lines are missing, it appears to be just "big" power lines and that's 'accurate' in the sense that South Australia doesn't share power across the Nuallabor to Western Australia and many northern towns are 'independant' of any state or territory grid, running on a local generation basis.

Doesn't show Pine Gap or the Naval Communication Station Harold E. Holt base either . . . :-)

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Gap

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Communication_Station_Ha...

(Ground to space and Ground to underwater communications)

Re: Open Infrastructure Map

#30

Post by Towaway69 »

misiek08 wrote: post #21
Towaway69 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? Have I said that it's bad or good? I was just pointing out that yes, apparently data like this does get used in for bad things. I am not judging, as you seem to assume, I'm pointing out. It's a pity that others aren't as broad minded to consider both or all sides of technology. Technology isn't always automatically an improvement of the current situation. Yes it might solve the obvious problem but there are…

If you are not interested in disrupting the grid then yes - you implied it’s bad. You only mentioned the bad sides of such info being widely available. And like already mentioned in more nested comments - it’s not difficult to get such info if you are determined enough.

I stated a fact - it really happened and it was so communicated that the left-of-centre organisation obtained their information online, your assumption that I'm "implying it's bad" is in your head.

Facts are neutral.

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