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Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

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Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#21

Post by Ukv »

caminante wrote: post #17
Ukv wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase "it's ok to be white" has implicature (by maxim of relevance) and associations (by how the phrase originated and is used in practice) beyond its literal meaning. You can disagree with making that statement without thinking it's not okay to be white.

>used in practice This has been debunked. If it was co-opted, then why did 49% of blacks take a neutral to supportive view of the phrase in the poll? Explain that.

> This has been debunked.

What in particular has been debunked, and by what?

> If it was co-opted, then why [...]

I wouldn't say it was "co-opted" - as far as I'm aware it originated as and still mostly is an alt-right slogan.

> [...] then why did 49% of blacks take a neutral to supportive view of the phrase in the poll? Explain that.

Those unaware of the statement's usage, and those who choose to interpret the poll question as asking only about the statement's direct literal meaning, would likely answer supportive of the statement.

A better-designed poll could separate out those two issues, asking about both the statement's literal meaning and what it implies, but instead it's kind of mushed together dependant on how the respondent chose to interpret the question.

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#22

Post by caminante »

Induane wrote: post #16
caminante wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're switching topics. The prompt was whether blacks leaving black neighborhoods would be labeled racist. The assumption is that although it is categorical racism, nobody would call the act racist. As for crime, it's such a messy topic, though, recheck. I can easily find a lot of studies showing black communities having higher gun homicides, etc. after controlling for wealth (which you disagree with).

On the topic of crime,no, I don't necessarily disagree there. I'm sure your statistical data is correct. The way societal traumas manifest is tied to the types of trauma each demographic experienced and experiences (including their own self-perceptions of the ways in which they have been victimizes). Poverty is often a stressor that squeezes out behavior we tend to identify as criminal, but it just a common factor in…

You brought up POOR, white Appalachia. Therefore, controlling for wealth is reasonable. Other factors are presumably controlled for too.

If you want to bring up generational trauma, then it sounds to me like you're making the argument to leave a neighborhood based on skin color. Yet, I don't know how to reconcile that with your criteria that racism is about intent regardless of risk.

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#23

Post by caminante »

Ukv wrote: post #21
caminante wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>used in practice This has been debunked. If it was co-opted, then why did 49% of blacks take a neutral to supportive view of the phrase in the poll? Explain that.

> This has been debunked. What in particular has been debunked, and by what? > If it was co-opted, then why [...] I wouldn't say it was "co-opted" - as far as I'm aware it originated as and still mostly is an alt-right slogan. > [...] then why did 49% of blacks take a neutral to supportive view of the phrase in the poll? Explain that. Those unaware of the statement's usage, and those who choose to interpret the poll…

>direct literal meaning

And couldn't that taint the people against the phrase?

You're trying to have it both ways.

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#24

Post by Ukv »

caminante wrote: post #23
Ukv wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has been debunked. What in particular has been debunked, and by what? > If it was co-opted, then why [...] I wouldn't say it was "co-opted" - as far as I'm aware it originated as and still mostly is an alt-right slogan. > [...] then why did 49% of blacks take a neutral to supportive view of the phrase in the poll? Explain that. Those unaware of the statement's usage, and those who choose to interpret the poll…

>direct literal meaning And couldn't that taint the people against the phrase? You're trying to have it both ways.

> And couldn't that taint the people against the phrase?

In that, you think some people would agree with the phrase when taken with its implicature and connotations, but then object to its far milder literal meaning? Struggling to see what worldview that'd be possible for.

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#25

Post by caminante »

mindslight wrote: post #19
caminante wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>possible Why equivocate to one side and assume the worst from a poll? By your reasoning, it's "possible" he was correct. FWIW, Adams conditioned his language with similar reasoning ... See the "If"

I said "possible" because I don't feel like signing myself up to wade through pig shit to finely arbitrate who is over the line where.

What's the point?

You don't want to arbitrate, but also want to posture with "everyone's shitty here" with a bias that even the poll is biased.

I don't get it.

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#26

Post by mindslight »

caminante wrote: post #25
mindslight wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said "possible" because I don't feel like signing myself up to wade through pig shit to finely arbitrate who is over the line where.

What's the point? You don't want to arbitrate, but also want to posture with "everyone's shitty here" with a bias that even the poll is biased. I don't get it.

Yes, everyone engaging in populist racism is basically shitty. I don't think that should be a controversial statement, yet there are lots of people thinking that by pointing to the "other side's" shittiness, this absolves "their team's" shittiness.

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#27

Post by caminante »

mindslight wrote: post #26
caminante wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point? You don't want to arbitrate, but also want to posture with "everyone's shitty here" with a bias that even the poll is biased. I don't get it.

Yes, everyone engaging in populist racism is basically shitty. I don't think that should be a controversial statement, yet there are lots of people thinking that by pointing to the "other side's" shittiness, this absolves "their team's" shittiness.

I get what you're saying, now.

I agree.

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#28

Post by caminante »

Ukv wrote: post #24
caminante wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>direct literal meaning And couldn't that taint the people against the phrase? You're trying to have it both ways.

> And couldn't that taint the people against the phrase? In that, you think some people would agree with the phrase when taken with its implicature and connotations, but then object to its far milder literal meaning? Struggling to see what worldview that'd be possible for.

No.

They'd be agnostic of the alleged nefarious meaning just like you're dismissing all those accepting as being unaware.

For your view to be true, you're saying the other 49% of blacks polled are clueless instead of seeing alternative, non nefarious meanings.

It's possible, but I wouldn't take that bet.

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#29

Post by fragmede »

treetalker wrote: post #20

On the off-chance he ever sees this, I am grateful to him as the vector through which I acquired the mental model that systems beat goals (the key to many types of success is consistently repeated action — the activity, not the lagging indicator of results). (Book: How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big .)

If you're really trying to reach him, email him at dilbertcartoonist@gmail.com

https://x.com/scottadamssays/status/582906158979006465

Re: Dilbert creator Scott Adams doesn't expect to live much longer

#30

Post by Suppafly »

mindslight wrote: post #10
caminante wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're skipping steps. Adam's was reacting to a poll where a majority of black americans took a stance against saying "it's OK to be white." How is that not a red flag for "hate" against another racial group?

When two pigs wrestle, they're both covered in shit. We don't say "pig #2 should be considered clean because he was only responding to pig #1". It's eminently possible for the original poll and Adams ( and the Mercury News for that matter) to all be fanning the flames of racism.

>It's eminently possible for the original poll and Adams (and the Mercury News for that matter) to all be fanning the flames of racism.

I'd even go so far to say that it's highly likely.

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