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Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

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Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#21

Post by charcircuit »

bhouston wrote: post #16

I've run into similar companies like this in the past in a few different niches and what they were doing are just repeating specs from Chinese OEM suppliers. They were not making their own hardware at all, just reselling it with custom branding and sometimes styling. It could be the case here? What would explain the accelerated development timeline, it is possible because it isn't their timeline at all, it is someone…

>It could be the case here?

I think it's the case, but I also think it will not look or function anything like the mock they showed.

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#22

Post by charcircuit »

websiteapi wrote: post #7

I'm surprised no one has tried to skip cameras all together and use ultrasound. mics use two or maybe even three orders of magnitude for an audio -> object inference stack vs visual. of course you can't detect colors or do A LOT of things, but hey, you could make glasses really look like regular glasses, especially if you got rid of the screens too.

>you could make glasses really look like regular glasses

The cameras are not what makes the glasses bulky and people find a lot of utility in taking and sharing pictures and videos from their glasses. So you'll probably always want to have at least one camera on the product for that use case.

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#23

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

charcircuit wrote: post #18
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #14

I have a degree in Computer Vision, and, whether Pickle is lying about various capabilities or not, this guy is talking completely out of his ass and a whole lot of what he says is just extremely idiotic. > tracking blah blah 6DoF blah blah IMU This whole section is just wildly false. Tracking like shown in the video is easily done with just a camera, 1980s-era sparse optical flow, and basic fucking geometry. No IMU…

SLAM is needed for world locked content. >1980s-era corner feature detection, and basic fucking geometry Which are pieces of how SLAM works. >You can absolutely do what they show with the hardware that Pickle claims is in the glasses. World locked content is not novel. Existing glasses can do it today. The claim is that Pickle didn't build it. The obvious answer would be that they are using what Qualcomm or someone e…

> SLAM is needed for world locked content.

It absolutely is not. Tracking is needed for mapping, not the other way around.

And it's definitely not needed for what they show in the video that this kid is complaining about. It's not even needed for associating things that go out of view and then come back, though it can help there.

> Which are pieces of how SLAM works.

Screws are pieces of how automobiles work, but it would be foolish to suggest that one needs a Honda Pilot to hang a painting on their wall.

> The claim is that Pickle didn't build it. The obvious answer would be that they are using what Qualcomm or someone else built

Please don't shift goalposts. The claim is that they're lying about capability. And the evidence given for that claim is flat out wrong.

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#24

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

ruufu wrote: post #20
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #14

I have a degree in Computer Vision, and, whether Pickle is lying about various capabilities or not, this guy is talking completely out of his ass and a whole lot of what he says is just extremely idiotic. > tracking blah blah 6DoF blah blah IMU This whole section is just wildly false. Tracking like shown in the video is easily done with just a camera, 1980s-era sparse optical flow, and basic fucking geometry. No IMU…

Well I hope you never get into this business because I doubt your glasses will work in the dark or on red eye flights.

I have a sneaking belief that the video clip showing a rack of cookies on a brightly lit counter wasn't shot in the dark or on a red eye flight, so that's a non-sequitur.

Digital camera sensors are all inherently extremely sensitive to infrared anyway and can see quite well in the dark with nothing more than an IR LED if you don't add a physical filter over the sensor, soooo...

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#25

Post by websiteapi »

charcircuit wrote: post #22
websiteapi wrote: post #7

I'm surprised no one has tried to skip cameras all together and use ultrasound. mics use two or maybe even three orders of magnitude for an audio -> object inference stack vs visual. of course you can't detect colors or do A LOT of things, but hey, you could make glasses really look like regular glasses, especially if you got rid of the screens too.

>you could make glasses really look like regular glasses The cameras are not what makes the glasses bulky and people find a lot of utility in taking and sharing pictures and videos from their glasses. So you'll probably always want to have at least one camera on the product for that use case.

I'm not talking about bulk - I'm talking about the fact that regular glasses don't have cameras on them, thus don't look like regular glasses.

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#26

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

websiteapi wrote: post #7

I'm surprised no one has tried to skip cameras all together and use ultrasound. mics use two or maybe even three orders of magnitude for an audio -> object inference stack vs visual. of course you can't detect colors or do A LOT of things, but hey, you could make glasses really look like regular glasses, especially if you got rid of the screens too.

> I'm surprised no one has tried to skip cameras all together and use ultrasound.

The ratios of image resolution and viewing distance to physical size are veeeeeeery bad with sound compared to cameras though. Cameras are also completely passive sensors that don't require an attached emitter in most circumstances.

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#27

Post by charcircuit »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #23
charcircuit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SLAM is needed for world locked content. >1980s-era corner feature detection, and basic fucking geometry Which are pieces of how SLAM works. >You can absolutely do what they show with the hardware that Pickle claims is in the glasses. World locked content is not novel. Existing glasses can do it today. The claim is that Pickle didn't build it. The obvious answer would be that they are using what Qualcomm or someone e…

> SLAM is needed for world locked content. It absolutely is not. Tracking is needed for mapping, not the other way around. And it's definitely not needed for what they show in the video that this kid is complaining about. It's not even needed for associating things that go out of view and then come back, though it can help there. > Which are pieces of how SLAM works. Screws are pieces of how automobiles work, but it…

>Tracking is needed for mapping, not the other way around.

The term tracking is being used twice. The tracking data that OpenXR exposes comes from SLAM. SLAM is done doing sensor fusion including signals that come from tracking points.

>And it's definitely not needed for what they show in the video

The video shows 6 dof tracking which for a production implementation would do SLAM tracking.

>for associating things that go out of view and then come back

Having memory of what existed before implies you have a form of a map. You also want a map to be able to match together the views of the multiple cameras.

>Please don't shift goalposts.

The claim I am referring to is, "6DoF with spatial anchoring on a device this small and compute constrained is hard for any company to build, let alone Pickle."

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#28

Post by brcmthrowaway »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #14

I have a degree in Computer Vision, and, whether Pickle is lying about various capabilities or not, this guy is talking completely out of his ass and a whole lot of what he says is just extremely idiotic. > tracking blah blah 6DoF blah blah IMU This whole section is just wildly false. Tracking like shown in the video is easily done with just a camera, 1980s-era sparse optical flow, and basic fucking geometry. No IMU…

> This whole section is just wildly false. Tracking like shown in the video is easily done with just a camera, 1980s-era sparse optical flow, and basic fucking geometry. No IMU needed. People have been doing far more complex and stable motion tracking with no more input than single camera video for literally decades.

Not with imperceptible latency

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#29

Post by NBJack »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #14

I have a degree in Computer Vision, and, whether Pickle is lying about various capabilities or not, this guy is talking completely out of his ass and a whole lot of what he says is just extremely idiotic. > tracking blah blah 6DoF blah blah IMU This whole section is just wildly false. Tracking like shown in the video is easily done with just a camera, 1980s-era sparse optical flow, and basic fucking geometry. No IMU…

Given the amount of tech I own that is supposed to do this (higher end VR headsets with hand tracking, AR glasses with environmental tracking, etc.), I wouldn't dismiss the author's claims.

But I'd be interested in your examples that can achieve what Pickle is offering in a single pair of glasses.

Re: Pickle 1 AR Glasses (YC W25) May Be Fraudulent

#30

Post by fuzzythinker »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #14

I have a degree in Computer Vision, and, whether Pickle is lying about various capabilities or not, this guy is talking completely out of his ass and a whole lot of what he says is just extremely idiotic. > tracking blah blah 6DoF blah blah IMU This whole section is just wildly false. Tracking like shown in the video is easily done with just a camera, 1980s-era sparse optical flow, and basic fucking geometry. No IMU…

If you really believe Pickle's claim so much and disbelieve OP's analysis so much, you should contact Pickle's CEO to get more info from him. Once you build more trust, you should join the CEO and take on OP's bet.
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