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Straussian Memes

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Re: Straussian Memes

#21

Post by ryandv »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18
ryandv wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another phrase that comes to mind is "Plausible Deniability": By uttering ambiguous sentences you can deny all but one possible meanings of what you say. And talking to different audiences at different times you can claim you didn't mean anything like what your citics are claiming you did. This is the core rhetorical tactic of the progressive left in a nutshell. Linguistic superposition, equivocation, Schrodinger's…

> the core rhetorical tactic of the progressive left in a nutshell I live in Wyoming and have MAGA and ultra-progressive friends. Multiple messaging is a hallmark of all elites. Sometimes it’s functional: being able to say something sharp that if repeated is ambiguous is a skill. Anyone who has any power or authority wields it. It is so common to suggest requirement. (Other times, multiple messaging lets one apologis…

> In many respects, it’s an essential feature of commanding language. Compressing multiple meanings into fewer words is the essence of poetry and literature.

Aye, perhaps prompting is the be-all-end-all skill, after all: the ability to distill out an idea into its most concentrated, compressed essence, so it can be diluted, expanded, and reworded ad infinitum by the LLMs.

brb while I search for the word prompt that generated the universe...

Re: Straussian Memes

#22

Post by lcuff »

ryandv wrote: post #14
lcuff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Core rhetorical tactic of the progressive left". Or the conservative right, depending on which side of this divide one happens to stand on. And speaking of Orwell, he was pointing out the doublespeak of the Fascists, not the socialists.

It's really quite potent in terms such as "racism" or "gender" which have seen unilateral attempts at redefinition.

Again, I think this is likely seen differently depending on which side of the political spectrum one stands, and what sources of information one attunes to. I agree that both 'racism' and 'gender' have become flash-points for discord, and that one can point to the left as trying to change the definitions. But I can think of other words that the right is equally guilty of attempting to re-define. For example, 'woke' was a term originally rooted in African American communities meaning awareness of systemic injustice, but is now used by the right as pejorative for anything they disagree with. (Including the existence of systemic injustice, sigh.)

Re: Straussian Memes

#23

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ryandv wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the core rhetorical tactic of the progressive left in a nutshell I live in Wyoming and have MAGA and ultra-progressive friends. Multiple messaging is a hallmark of all elites. Sometimes it’s functional: being able to say something sharp that if repeated is ambiguous is a skill. Anyone who has any power or authority wields it. It is so common to suggest requirement. (Other times, multiple messaging lets one apologis…

> In many respects, it’s an essential feature of commanding language. Compressing multiple meanings into fewer words is the essence of poetry and literature. Aye, perhaps prompting is the be-all-end-all skill, after all: the ability to distill out an idea into its most concentrated, compressed essence, so it can be diluted, expanded, and reworded ad infinitum by the LLMs. brb while I search for the word prompt that g…

> the ability to distill out an idea into its most concentrated, compressed essence, so it can be diluted, expanded, and reworded ad infinitum by the LLMs

Nobody said people haven’t rendered themselves unable to understand poetry or literature through the ages. Nor that these skills haven’t had a distinct class mark to them.

Same here. Someone who relies on LLMs to speak and read will not be able to compete in a live environment. (Someone who uses them as a tool may gain an advantage. But that’s predicated on having the base skill.)

Re: Straussian Memes

#24

Post by klysm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19
VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I don't know what you'd call something structured like this, but I really love that advice: "You can't change the people around you - But you can change the people around you."

What is the difference between a Straussian meme and a double entendre?

I think one is more interpretation vs lexical similarity

Re: Straussian Memes

#25

Post by throw4847285 »

The fact that the LessWrong crowd will reference a memeified version of Leo Strauss is very telling. To be anti-philosophy but really into Leo Strauss. Curious. I wonder where they encountered his ideas?

Edit: Not sure why I was being coy. I'm talking about the Claremont Institute.

Re: Straussian Memes

#26

Post by aaron695 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #3
cathyreisenwitz wrote: post #2

Did I miss something, or are none of the examples both Straussian and memetic/memes? I feel like if this were a real thing, one could imagine one example. Also, that's not how churches generally work.

It's classic Bay Area monoculture, like that Paul Graham essay about "things you can't say". People are deferential to it because LessWrong is a hugbox or because Graham is rich but in that monoculture people are used to laughing at jokes that lack a punch line and thinking that makes them "insiders", "cool", or "smart", compared to people in flyover states, the East Coast, and the rest of California who can't see th…

[dead]

Re: Straussian Memes

#27

Post by PaulHoule »

ryandv wrote: post #16
PaulHoule wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Illegal alien" is one of the greatest accomplishments of language engineering and was unambiguously successful. When the left tries this today it results in equal and opposite backlash and has no effect in terms of policy, winning elections, and that sort of stuff, but it certainly can be a motor that keeps online bubbles bubbling.

I think there is no equivocation or ambiguity here, unless you are me at age 5 asking why aliens have landed in Mexico. I would hazard that you are underestimating the impact of these rhetorical tactics, but I've not the energy to aggressively litigate and cite this point further.

The effectiveness of these tactics is incredible, it helps people who build an identity around marginalization to always feel marginalized. If they ever won anything it would threaten their whole reason for existence.

Re: Straussian Memes

#28

Post by stocksinsmocks »

Unrelated to the topic, I’m a bit at a loss as to what to make of this website. There was a link to a really cool analysis of artificial intelligence research. And I guess they are a nonprofit and are raising $2M for “infrastructure“ but I think they mean infrastructure in the sense of software they like, and not the kind of infrastructure normal people think of like plumbing, electricity, and roads. I spent a few minutes browsing, and I can’t even tell what charitable purpose or educational purpose they could be serving. There’s just no clear statement of purpose anywhere other than I suppose being really rational.

Who are these dudes?

Re: Straussian Memes

#30

Post by stocksinsmocks »

cathyreisenwitz wrote: post #2

Did I miss something, or are none of the examples both Straussian and memetic/memes? I feel like if this were a real thing, one could imagine one example. Also, that's not how churches generally work.

I wish atheist would just stop writing about Christian practices. Particularly screenwriters. It’s better that your audience assumes you are ignorant than to open your mouth and prove them right.
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