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The rise of industrial software

chrisloy.dev

21–30 of 201 posts

Re: The rise of industrial software

#21
post #8

Another AI entrepreneur who writes a long article about inevitability, lists some downsides in order to remain credible but all in all just uses neurolinguistic programming on the reader so that the reader, too, will think the the "AI" revolution is inevitable.

Tldr; initially I thought we might be onto something, but now, I don't see much of a revolution.

I won't put intention into the text because I did not check any other posts from the same guy.

That said, I think this revolution is not revolutionary yet. Not sure if it will be, but maybe?

What is happening os that companies are going back to "normal" number of people in software development. Before it was because of adoption to custom software, later because of labour shortage, then we had a boom because people caught up into it as a viable career but then it started scaling down again because one developer can (technically) do more with AI.

There are huge red flags with "fully automated" software development that are not being fixed but for those outside of the expertise area, doesn't seem relevant. With newer restrictions related to cost and hardware, AI will be even a worse option unless there is some sort of magic that fixes everything related to how it does code.

The economy (all around the world) is bonkers right now. Honestly, I saw some Jr Devs earning 6 fig salaries (in USD) and doing less than what me and my friends did when we were Jr. There is inflation and all, but the numbers does not seem to add.

Part of it all is a re- normalisation but part of it is certainly a lack of understanding of software and/or// engineering.

Current tools, and I include even those kiro, anti-gravity and whatever, do not solve my problems, just make my work faster. Easier to look for code, find data and read through blocks of code I don't see in a while. Writing code not so much better. If it is simple and easy it certainly can do, but for anything more complex it seems that it is faster and more reliable to do myself (and probably cheaper)

Re: The rise of industrial software

#22
post #17

Not convinced. There is an obvious value in having more food or more products for almost anybody on Earth. I am not sure this is the case for software. Most people's needs are completely fulfilled with the amount and quality of software they already have.

But how about some silly software for just a giggle. Like 'write website that plays fart sound when you push button'? That can be a thing for the kids at school.

Re: The rise of industrial software

#23
Personally I think AI is going to turn software into a cottage industry, it will make custom software something the individual can afford. AI is a very long ways off from being able to allow the average person to create the software they want unless they are willing to put a great deal of time into it, but it is almost good enough that the programmer can take the average person's idea and execute it at an affordable price. Probably only a year or two from when a capable programmer will be able to offer any small buisness a completely customized POS setup for what the cost of a canned industrial offering today; I will design your website and build you a POS system tailored to your needs and completely integrated with the website, and for a little more I can throw in the accounting and tax software. A bright dishwasher realizing they can make things work better for their employer might be the next billionaire revolutionizing commerce and the small buisness.

I have some programming ability and a lot of ideas but would happily hire someone to realize those ideas for me. The idea I have put the most time into, took me the better part of a year to sort out all the details of even with the help of AI, most programmers could have probably done it in a night and with AI could write the software in a few nights. I would have my software for an affordable price and they could stick it in their personal store so other could buy it. If I am productive with it and show its utility, they will sell more copies of it so they have an incentive to work with people like me and help me realize my ideas.

Programming is going to become a service instead of an industry, the craft of programming will be for sale instead of software.

Re: The rise of industrial software

#24

Personally I think AI is going to turn software into a cottage industry, it will make custom software something the individual can afford. AI is a very long ways off from being able to allow the average person to create the software they want unless they are willing to put a great deal of time into it, but it is almost good enough that the programmer can take the average person's idea and execute it at an affordable…

> and for a little more I can throw in the accounting and tax software

As someone who has worked in two companies that raised millions of dollars and had hundred people tackling just half of this, tax software, you are in for a treat.

Re: The rise of industrial software

#25
If that is true we will live in a funny world when you will loose all your money because you where running some outdated, riddled with holes software written by LLM running on some old router old cheap camera. Or some software will stop working after an update because some fix was written by LLM and nobody checked that nor tested. Or they will 3 outages of big internet services in 2 months.

Oh wait. It is already a thing.

Re: The rise of industrial software

#26

I think the idea is interesting, but immensely flawed. The following is just disingenuous: >industrialisation of printing processes led to paperback genre fiction >industrialisation of agriculture led to ultraprocessed junk food >industrialisation of digital image sensors led to user-generated video Industrialization of printing was the necessary precondition for mass literacy and mass education. The industrializatio…

I agree with you on all of this, and found myself wondering if the author had actually studied the Industrial Revolution at all.

The Industrial Revolution created a flywheel: you built machines that could build lots of things better and for less cost than before, including the parts to make better machines that could build things even better and for less cost than before, including the parts to make better machines... and on and on.

The key part to industrialisation in the 19th-century framing, is that you have in-built iterative improvement: by driving down cost, you increase demand (the author covers this), which increases investment in driving down costs, which increases demand, and so on.

Critically, this flywheel has exponential outputs, not linear. The author shows Jevons paradox, and the curve is right there - note the lack of straight line.

I'm not sure we're seeing this in AI software generation yet.

Costs are shifting in people's minds, from developer salaries to spending on tokens, so there's a feeling of cost reduction, but that's because a great deal of that seems to be heavily subsidised today.

It's also not clear that these AI tools are being used to produce exponentially better AI tools - despite the jump we saw ~GPT-3.5, quantitive improvement in output seems to remain linear as a function of cost, not exponential. Yet investment input seems to be exponential (this makes it feel more like a bubble).

I'm not saying that industrialisation of the type the author refers to isn't possible (and I'd even say most industrialisation of software happened back in the 1960s/70s), or that the flywheel can't pick up with AI, just that we're not quite where they think it is.

I'd also argue it's not a given that we're going to see the output of "industrialisation" drive us towards "junk" as a natural order of things - if anything we'll know it's not a junk bubble when we do in fact see the opposite, which is what optimists are betting on being just around the corner.

Re: The rise of industrial software

#27
post #24

Personally I think AI is going to turn software into a cottage industry, it will make custom software something the individual can afford. AI is a very long ways off from being able to allow the average person to create the software they want unless they are willing to put a great deal of time into it, but it is almost good enough that the programmer can take the average person's idea and execute it at an affordable…

> and for a little more I can throw in the accounting and tax software As someone who has worked in two companies that raised millions of dollars and had hundred people tackling just half of this, tax software, you are in for a treat.

Sure, that is still a ways off, but being able to hire a programmer to meet my personal modest software needs is almost there. Also, the needs of any company that required a hundred people and millions of dollars is very different from the needs of a small restaurant or the like; anyone with enough ambition to run a small restaurant can manage the accounting and taxes for that restaurant, the same can not be said for the sort of buisness you are describing. You are comparing an apple to an orange orchard.

Edit: Just noticed I said "any buisness", that was supposed to be "any small buisness." Edited the original post as well.

Re: The rise of industrial software

#28
The industrial revolution was constrained by access to the means of production, leaving only those with capital able to actually produce, which lead to new economic situations.

What are the constraints with LLMs? Will an Anthropic, Google, OpenAI, etc, constrain how much we can consume? What is the value of any piece of software if anyone can produce everything? The same applies to everything we're suddenly able to produce. What is the value of a book if anyone can generate one? What is the value of a piece of art, if it requires zero skill to generate it?

Re: The rise of industrial software

#29
But I think the important part of this is the reach that the Industrial Revolution had. Consumer facing software, or the endusers who were able to "benefit" from the Industrial Revolution, and individual needs for all of these mass produced goods.

The important thing is that goods =/= software. I, as an end user, of software rarely need specialized software. I dont need an entire app generated on the spot to split the bill and remember the difference if I have the calculator.

So, yes, we are industrializing software, but this reach that people talk about (I believe) will be severely limited.

Re: The rise of industrial software

#30
i would say comparing making of software and working factory makes analogy mistake. complete software is analogy to running factory. making software is making of the factory. that is specialised tooling, layouts, supply chain etc. when you have all this your factory runs on industrial scale and produces things. like your software produces value when its completed and used by enduser.
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