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Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

danielmiessler.com

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Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#21

Post by davnicwil »

mathgeek wrote: post #18
davnicwil wrote: post #5

It's an interesting one. We'll have to discover where to draw that line in education and training. It is an incredible accelerant in top-down 'theory driven' learning, which is objectively good, I think we can all agree. Like, it's a better world having that than not having it. But at the same time there's a tension between that and the sort of bottom-up practice-driven learning that's pretty inarguably required for…

> We'll have to discover where to draw that line in education and training. I'm not sure we (meaning society as a whole) are going to have enough say to really draw those lines. Individuals will have more of a choice going forward, just like they did when education was democratized via many other technologies. The most that society will probably have a say in is what folks are allowed to pay for as far as credentials…

that's actually what I mean by we. As in, different individuals will try different strategies with it, and we the collective will discover what works based on results.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#22

Post by stavros »

llmslave2 wrote: post #17
danielrm26 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah man...that's good. But maybe both of those are in the category of undesirable things. And the things we end up with are like art and baking and walking and talking and drinking coffee and such. Professional Chess is a nice pattern here. A calculator can beat Magnus Carlsen at this point, but Chess is more popular than ever. So it should be ok if AI/Robots are better than us at all the stuff we still decide to do.

Yeah I don't see clankers ever taking over art, music, sports etc. People care in large part about those things because of the human aspect. I'd love for them to take my job as a programmer though, as that would certainty free up time for me to travel and drink coffee and Guinness.

Where would you find the money to do those things with?

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#23

Post by kelseyfrog »

stavros wrote: post #22
llmslave2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't see clankers ever taking over art, music, sports etc. People care in large part about those things because of the human aspect. I'd love for them to take my job as a programmer though, as that would certainty free up time for me to travel and drink coffee and Guinness.

Where would you find the money to do those things with?

If all productive human labor is replaced by AI we have larger problems than where we'll find the money.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#24

Post by llmslave2 »

stavros wrote: post #22
llmslave2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't see clankers ever taking over art, music, sports etc. People care in large part about those things because of the human aspect. I'd love for them to take my job as a programmer though, as that would certainty free up time for me to travel and drink coffee and Guinness.

Where would you find the money to do those things with?

Hopefully from money I've saved up or a business I started in the meantime.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#25

Post by stavros »

The point that we should do the things we want to be, as in, to have as parts of our identity, is really good insight. Even if the AI can do X well, maybe I want to also be able to do X, therefore I should practice it.

I don't know what those things will be for me, yet, but it's good to have a more specific and directed way to think about which skills I want to keep.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#26

Post by rangestransform »

llmslave2 wrote: post #7

We want machines to do the laundry and clean our house so we have more time to create art and write code. Seems like in our current trajectory, the machines will produce the art and code so we have more time to clean our house and do laundry....

Anecdotally LLM vibe coding has sucked ass on the big robotics monorepo I work on

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#27

Post by blargey »

Lurking between the lines in arguments about AI writing/code/art is that whether or not an activity is "gym" or "job" is often in the eye of the beholder.

People who never "went to the gym" in a field are all too eager to brush off the entire design space as pure Job that can and should be fully delegated to AI posthaste.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#28

Post by lxgr »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #3

> [AI/LLM writes] why I made the decisions I did When one thinks about human decision making, there are at least two classes of decisions: 1. decisions made with our "fast" minds: ducking out of the way of an incoming object, turning around when someone calls our name ... a whole host of decisions made without much if any conscious attention, and that if you asked the human who made those decisions you wouldn't get m…

Does it really matter how the LLM got to a (correct) conclusion?

As long as the explanation is sound as well and I can follow it, I don't really care if the internal process looked quite different, as long as it's not outright deceptive.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#29

Post by nhinck2 »

davnicwil wrote: post #5

It's an interesting one. We'll have to discover where to draw that line in education and training. It is an incredible accelerant in top-down 'theory driven' learning, which is objectively good, I think we can all agree. Like, it's a better world having that than not having it. But at the same time there's a tension between that and the sort of bottom-up practice-driven learning that's pretty inarguably required for…

> It is an incredible accelerant in top-down 'theory driven' learning

Is it? People claim this but I really haven't seen any proof that it is true.

Re: Keep the Robots Out of the Gym

#30

Post by sunrunner »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #23
stavros wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you find the money to do those things with?

If all productive human labor is replaced by AI we have larger problems than where we'll find the money.

I guess we all just need to come up with a shared definition for ‘productive’ first then? Shouldn’t be too difficult.
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