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Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

quantamagazine.org

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Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#21

Post by SkyPuncher »

harshreality wrote: post #11

Someone who works out every day will obviously have different metabolic and microRNA profiles; assuming that line of research holds up and those biomolecular profiles make it into the zygote, survive many replication cycles, and act as developmental signalling molecules affecting gene expression during embryonic and fetal development, there could be life-long effects. What can't happen is inter-generational transmiss…

> Someone who's afraid of a specific thing, however, cannot transmit fear of that specific thing unless there's some incredible and unexplored cognition-to-biomolecular signalling mechanism that's entirely unexplored and undescribed.

While there is absolutely no conclusive evidence, there are a few studies that indicate this is a possibility.

One such study from 2013: https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.3594

Again, there’s not strong proof- but at least plausible evidence.

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#22

Post by indexbill »

diab0lic wrote: post #18
yearolinuxdsktp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know that severe stress (such as trauma) leaves chemical marks on the genes, potentially passed down to the offspring. For example, this paper writes about an “accumulating amount of evidence of an enduring effect of trauma exposure to be passed to offspring transgenerationally: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5977074/ Though “lived experience” can encompass a lot of things, it definitely encompasses seve…

The comment you’re replying to suggests “lived experience” is too broad, not too narrow. The issue isn’t that it fails to include your example. It fails to exclude other things. Part of my lived experience today was seeing a manatee. It is unlikely this will be passed on.

[dead]

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#23

Post by CuriouslyC »

harshreality wrote: post #11

Someone who works out every day will obviously have different metabolic and microRNA profiles; assuming that line of research holds up and those biomolecular profiles make it into the zygote, survive many replication cycles, and act as developmental signalling molecules affecting gene expression during embryonic and fetal development, there could be life-long effects. What can't happen is inter-generational transmiss…

Not much of a stretch to consider that the brain is wired to initiate biochemistry that modifies the germ line.

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#24

Post by jjmarr »

> For instance, mouse fathers exposed to nicotine(opens a new tab) sire male pups with livers that are good at disarming not just nicotine but cocaine and other toxins as well.

queue rationalist fathers microdosing nicotine patches before conception to give their kids the best chance at abusing drugs.

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#25

Post by CuriouslyC »

echelon wrote: post #7
zerofor_conduct wrote: post #4

Lamarck has entered the chat

I see you being downvoted, but it's a good quip. Lamarckian vs. Mendelian genetics was about heritable traits being acquired in life (Lamarck), or being discrete units passed down at conception (Mendel). Genetics is almost entirely Mendelian, but some of epigenetics is durable and thus Lamarckian. There's also retroviral integrations, transposons, and all sorts of other complexities that don't fit neatly into boxes.

Not just epigenetics, cells (and probably organisms) have mechanisms to induce mutations at elevated rates (e.g. E. Coli lacZ mutation under pressure). I wouldn't be surprised if nervous systems are elegantly wired to both epigentic and mutagenic levers to accelerate evolution through stimulus guided modifications rather than just raw survival/selection.

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#26

Post by SoftTalker »

websiteapi wrote: post #9

assuming this is true, perhaps it's best to freeze sperm regularly with labels that way if you go off the deep end you can snapshot quite literally your best self? some possible times - right before college, right after college, after you meet someone you think you'd marry (but before you do), after marriage. seems like a neat premise for a sci fi novella.

I think trying to "tune" your kids in any way is asking to be disappointed. My three kids could not be more different and they all have the same mother, grew up in the same house, etc.

If "microRNA" profiles have any influence, I would wager it's very small.

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#27

Post by PeterHolzwarth »

xeromal wrote: post #14
websiteapi wrote: post #9

assuming this is true, perhaps it's best to freeze sperm regularly with labels that way if you go off the deep end you can snapshot quite literally your best self? some possible times - right before college, right after college, after you meet someone you think you'd marry (but before you do), after marriage. seems like a neat premise for a sci fi novella.

Makes me wonder if that's some of the influence that different siblings get? The first born gets more ambition, the middle child chills, and the baby acts like a boomer. jk. Honestly, sounds like a great read!

Adding "jk" after a casual prejudiced insult to a demographic doesn't undo the prejudiced insult.

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#28

Post by MichaelZuo »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #21
harshreality wrote: post #11

Someone who works out every day will obviously have different metabolic and microRNA profiles; assuming that line of research holds up and those biomolecular profiles make it into the zygote, survive many replication cycles, and act as developmental signalling molecules affecting gene expression during embryonic and fetal development, there could be life-long effects. What can't happen is inter-generational transmiss…

> Someone who's afraid of a specific thing, however, cannot transmit fear of that specific thing unless there's some incredible and unexplored cognition-to-biomolecular signalling mechanism that's entirely unexplored and undescribed. While there is absolutely no conclusive evidence, there are a few studies that indicate this is a possibility. One such study from 2013: https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.3594 Again, th…

It does depend on how specific the thing is. Spiders in general maybe, but for a particular type of spider seems to have close to nil possibility.

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#29

Post by xeromal »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #27
xeromal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder if that's some of the influence that different siblings get? The first born gets more ambition, the middle child chills, and the baby acts like a boomer. jk. Honestly, sounds like a great read!

Adding "jk" after a casual prejudiced insult to a demographic doesn't undo the prejudiced insult.

I'm insulting myself. I'm describing what is my family dynamic.

Re: Fathers’ choices may be packaged and passed down in sperm RNA

#30

Post by thfuran »

diab0lic wrote: post #18
yearolinuxdsktp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know that severe stress (such as trauma) leaves chemical marks on the genes, potentially passed down to the offspring. For example, this paper writes about an “accumulating amount of evidence of an enduring effect of trauma exposure to be passed to offspring transgenerationally: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5977074/ Though “lived experience” can encompass a lot of things, it definitely encompasses seve…

The comment you’re replying to suggests “lived experience” is too broad, not too narrow. The issue isn’t that it fails to include your example. It fails to exclude other things. Part of my lived experience today was seeing a manatee. It is unlikely this will be passed on.

And the comment you’re replying to suggests that since many lived experiences are plausibly heritable, the term is appropriate. In any case, the context in which it is actually used in the article seems beyond all but the most pedantic reproach:

>The first is how a father’s body physically encodes lived experience, such as stress, diet, exercise or nicotine use

And that’s a single sentence partway through the article. From the beginning, the refrain is the list of the sorts of things that seem to have heritable effect, not the phrase “lived experiences”.

>Research into how a father’s choices — such as diet, exercise, stress, nicotine use — may transfer traits to his children

>Within a sperm’s minuscule head are stowaway molecules, which enter the egg and convey information about the father’s fitness, such as diet, exercise habits and stress levels, to his offspring

Etc. The article is clearly not attempting to suggest that all experiences are heritable.

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