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Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

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Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#21

Post by Qem »

k__ wrote: post #11
yard2010 wrote: post #4

Anecdotally I stumbled upon this phenomenon when trying to learn how to play the piano. I noticed that at the end of a session I make so many mistakes and feel like I didn't learn that much, but coming back to it after a day or two I really felt the difference.

Learning to play an instrument feels like magic. You fail the whole day. Don't have the feeling anything sticks. Then, the next day it works right from the start. No new insights, nothing, it just works.

I never played any instrument, but I had the exact same experience getting through difficult stages in videogames.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#22

Post by k__ »

Qem wrote: post #21
k__ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to play an instrument feels like magic. You fail the whole day. Don't have the feeling anything sticks. Then, the next day it works right from the start. No new insights, nothing, it just works.

I never played any instrument, but I had the exact same experience getting through difficult stages in videogames.

Yes, me too.

It seems to be a thing with practicing motion sequences.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#23

Post by [deleted] »

copperx wrote: post #18
criley2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a half dozen language learning apps on my phone and have vibe coded a few concepts as well and while spaced recognition is amazing, it still suffers from the duolingo "vocabulary is not a language" problem. IMO the way around users feeling like spaced recognition isn't progression is by redefining progression away from memorizing vocabulary into into becoming proficient in conversation both listening and speak…

How is spaced recognition different from spaced repetition? Recall is different from merely recognition, right?

[deleted]

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#24

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

criley2 wrote: post #15
ChadNauseam wrote: post #5

One counterintuitive issue with spaced repetition is that the modern algorithms like FSRS are actually almost too good at scheduling. The effect is that each card is almost perfectly scheduled to be very difficult but still doable. Now, it's a bit weird to call it an issue considering it's the whole concept working exactly as designed. But it does cause one follow-up problem. The problem is that in life, we are accus…

I have a half dozen language learning apps on my phone and have vibe coded a few concepts as well and while spaced recognition is amazing, it still suffers from the duolingo "vocabulary is not a language" problem. IMO the way around users feeling like spaced recognition isn't progression is by redefining progression away from memorizing vocabulary into into becoming proficient in conversation both listening and speak…

>but the second that voice starts speaking sentences and I need to understand in real time, I freeze up. The real progress is conversing!

What helped me a lot was doing a lot of listening exercises. Start with concentrating on what you can recognize, not on what you can't. Then listen again and and again and again trying to recognize more and more.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#25

Post by criley2 »

copperx wrote: post #18
criley2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a half dozen language learning apps on my phone and have vibe coded a few concepts as well and while spaced recognition is amazing, it still suffers from the duolingo "vocabulary is not a language" problem. IMO the way around users feeling like spaced recognition isn't progression is by redefining progression away from memorizing vocabulary into into becoming proficient in conversation both listening and speak…

How is spaced recognition different from spaced repetition? Recall is different from merely recognition, right?

Sorry, just a typo on my part, I meant spaced repetition.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#26

Post by criley2 »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #24
criley2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a half dozen language learning apps on my phone and have vibe coded a few concepts as well and while spaced recognition is amazing, it still suffers from the duolingo "vocabulary is not a language" problem. IMO the way around users feeling like spaced recognition isn't progression is by redefining progression away from memorizing vocabulary into into becoming proficient in conversation both listening and speak…

>but the second that voice starts speaking sentences and I need to understand in real time, I freeze up. The real progress is conversing! What helped me a lot was doing a lot of listening exercises. Start with concentrating on what you can recognize, not on what you can't. Then listen again and and again and again trying to recognize more and more.

That's what I do and it helps and many apps let me do just that. Repeating it, reading the hanzi, reading the pinyin, and it all makes sense.

But there's something about the "conversation" between a real human or an AI voice mode where you're not on the rails. It's real time and you have to lock in and understand. That's where the magic happens!

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#27

Post by treetalker »

zakki wrote: post #6
charcircuit wrote: post #3

>I like Mnemosyne (homepage) myself - Free, packaged for Ubuntu Linux It seems to use a 2 decade old modification of a now 4 decades old algorithm which will be worse and waste more of the user's time than using Anki with FSRS or SuperMemo with SM-18.

Do you have recommended apps using those algorithms?

Based on discussion on HN several days ago, I have started using Hashcards (markdown-based flash cards with FSRS; run from command line, but view cards in the browser). Once set up, it's pretty simple (e.g., no fiddly settings) which helps a lot. Getting new cards added is easy — especially with a Keyboard Maestro macro that I made (global keyboard shortcut pops up a window to enter Q/A and select a deck, i.e. md file, to append to; entering text only on the Q line creates a cloze-deletion card instead). Recommended.

My use case is drilling English --> target-language sentences, as well as law-related knowledge, miscellaneous facts, etc. Still mulling over what to do about other skills-based practices, à la Andy Matuschak's concept of "spaced everything".

- Hashcards: https://github.com/eudoxia0/hashcards

- HN discussion about Hashcards: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=hashcards

- Matuschak's "spaced everything": https://notes.andymatuschak.org/Spaced_everything

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#28

Post by sobjornstad »

k__ wrote: post #22
Qem wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never played any instrument, but I had the exact same experience getting through difficult stages in videogames.

Yes, me too. It seems to be a thing with practicing motion sequences.

I've noticed the same thing with rote memory tasks like lines of poetry, so I think it might be a more general thing involving the memory consolidation properties of sleep, maybe particularly focused on fluency/speed rather than mere ability to recall.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#29

Post by XCSme »

k__ wrote: post #11
yard2010 wrote: post #4

Anecdotally I stumbled upon this phenomenon when trying to learn how to play the piano. I noticed that at the end of a session I make so many mistakes and feel like I didn't learn that much, but coming back to it after a day or two I really felt the difference.

Learning to play an instrument feels like magic. You fail the whole day. Don't have the feeling anything sticks. Then, the next day it works right from the start. No new insights, nothing, it just works.

I am coaching table-tennis, and sometimes I tell people that we only actually "learn" while we sleep. So, without sleeping, the brain doesn't have time to "save" the new information for future use.

Not sure if it's factually correct, but it seems about right, sleeping seems to be the magic sauce, and the time when all memories are written from RAM to disk.

Re: Spaced repetition for efficient learning (2019)

#30

Post by boxed »

yard2010 wrote: post #4

Anecdotally I stumbled upon this phenomenon when trying to learn how to play the piano. I noticed that at the end of a session I make so many mistakes and feel like I didn't learn that much, but coming back to it after a day or two I really felt the difference.

Motor learning is quite different from the type of information the article talks about. I tried adding dance moves into Anki to do spaced repetition and it's extremely obvious that it's a great way to remember a move very badly but never getting good at it. Compare that to the geography deck where Anki is just perfectly suited for the task and smashes it.
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