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The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

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Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#21
post #17

Until people lobby for these privacy rights to be enshrined in law, this will continue to be a problem. Defeating one bad law isn't enough.

There are already MANY laws in the EU and Germany for me regarding privacy. All the proposals are blatantly illegal in Germany for example. Just recently our highest court declared large scale logging of DNS request as "very likely" illegal.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#22
post #12
post #7

I once liked the EU. Well still do it because of the east to travel without borders. But it's leadership is something dangerous and may shape to some form of dictatorship or entity that does not serve its people. But a small minority consisting out of some large companies.

I think EU will manage without you liking it. But painting its leadership as the one trying to shape dictatorship is incredible ignorant. Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. A country serving small minority of large companies is the best description of the US, not the EU.

I'm as pro european as they come, but I think the author didn't deserve a downvote.

If there is a moment when the EU could not afford to take hits to their popularity, it is now. And here we are, gifting free shots to anti-EU populists.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#23
post #20

To be honest, I think VPN businesses and specifically politically charged ones like Mullvad is doing disservice for the security of the country and specifically EU in this case. I think the right course of action should be a political activism, not a technological one. Especially when the company doing it makes a fortune. The course, when one can just disengage from participating in society by sidestepping the proble…

What? You don't need VPNs to do anything of that, we have political parties and journalists doing the job from within already

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#24
post #20

To be honest, I think VPN businesses and specifically politically charged ones like Mullvad is doing disservice for the security of the country and specifically EU in this case. I think the right course of action should be a political activism, not a technological one. Especially when the company doing it makes a fortune. The course, when one can just disengage from participating in society by sidestepping the proble…

[deleted]

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#25
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think EU will manage without you liking it. But painting its leadership as the one trying to shape dictatorship is incredible ignorant. Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. A country serving small minority of large companies is the best description of the US, not the EU.

I'm as pro european as they come, but I think the author didn't deserve a downvote. If there is a moment when the EU could not afford to take hits to their popularity, it is now. And here we are, gifting free shots to anti-EU populists.

Measures such going dark and similar ones are wholly supported - and pushed - by police forces around europe, not by politicians. I do agree that the politician should grow a spine and trust computer scientists for one, since they're the ones making laws after all

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#26
post #17

Until people lobby for these privacy rights to be enshrined in law, this will continue to be a problem. Defeating one bad law isn't enough.

There are already MANY laws in the EU and Germany for me regarding privacy. All the proposals are blatantly illegal in Germany for example. Just recently our highest court declared large scale logging of DNS request as "very likely" illegal.

> There are already MANY laws in the EU and Germany for me regarding privacy

Which apply equally to the government?

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#27
post #20

To be honest, I think VPN businesses and specifically politically charged ones like Mullvad is doing disservice for the security of the country and specifically EU in this case. I think the right course of action should be a political activism, not a technological one. Especially when the company doing it makes a fortune. The course, when one can just disengage from participating in society by sidestepping the proble…

> So instead of speaking from the high ground, please, tell us what your solution about mass disinformation happening from US social media megacorps, Russia mass disinformation, mass recruitment of people for sabotage on critical infrastructure.

Education. Education. Education. The only thing that ever worked. is Education. Censorship and a total surveillance state aren't an option. Why bother protecting freedom and democracy if you have to destroy freedom and democracy to do so?

And in case of sabotage of critical infrastructure, the answer is three-fold: 1. Apply the law to the saboteurs. 2. Retaliate in asymmetric fashion. We can't sabotage their hospitals but we can stop buying russian oil and gas, take their money and 3. arm ukraine.

> Tell us, how can we keep living in free society when this freedom is being used as a leverage by forces trying to destroy your union.

Are you or have you ever been a communist? We surveived the cold war and the warsaw pact. We can survive a third rate petrol station masquerading as a state.

> Please, give us your political solutions to the modern problems instead of earning a fortune by a performance free speech activism.

Who is earning a fortune here?

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#28
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think EU will manage without you liking it. But painting its leadership as the one trying to shape dictatorship is incredible ignorant. Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. A country serving small minority of large companies is the best description of the US, not the EU.

> Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. Let's assume for a moment that would be true. And let's also ignore the lack of a nuclear weapons in most EU countries. How does breaking encryption for normal people help? Spies and Operatives will just use PGP and ignore these laws, because that's what spies do.

Mind you I don’t believe this, but the logic is if encryption is banned, then anyone using it will be easier to find like spies.

Before online encryption, spies still used code books but having one in your house was essentially proof you were a spy.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#29
post #20

To be honest, I think VPN businesses and specifically politically charged ones like Mullvad is doing disservice for the security of the country and specifically EU in this case. I think the right course of action should be a political activism, not a technological one. Especially when the company doing it makes a fortune. The course, when one can just disengage from participating in society by sidestepping the proble…

In the history of humanity, it's never been the side attempting to restrict expression and the flow of information that's been in the right.

You don't "solve" the spread of "disinformation" because it's not a real problem in the first place. What you call "disinformation" is merely an idea with which you disagree. It doesn't matter whether any idea comes from the west, from China, from Russia, or Satan's rectum: it stands on its own and competes on its merits with other ideas in the mind of the public.

An idea so weak that it can survive only by murdering alternative ideas in the cradle is too fragile to deserve existing at all.

When you block the expression of disagreement, you wreck the sense-making apparatus that a civilization uses to solve problems and navigate history. You cripple its ability to find effective solutions for real but inconvenient problems. That, not people seeing the wrong words, is the real threat to public safety.

As we've learned painfully over the past decade, it is impossible for a censor to distinguish falsehood from disagreement. Attempts to purify discourse always and everywhere lead to epistemic collapse and crises a legitimacy. The concept is flawed and any policy intended to "combat the spread of disinformation" is evil.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#30
post #7

I once liked the EU. Well still do it because of the east to travel without borders. But it's leadership is something dangerous and may shape to some form of dictatorship or entity that does not serve its people. But a small minority consisting out of some large companies.

Your description match the US as well.
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