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Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

pv-magazine-usa.com

21–30 of 226 posts

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#21
Does anyone know whether it makes sense to setup solar arrays closer to users or to concentrate them in sunny places and send them throughout the country?

e.g. an analysis of whether we should setup all the solar farms in Nevada for the whole country... set them up in the general south and transmit north... or will each state have their own farms?

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#22
post #4

Am I dumb or does that sentence "Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet" make no sense grammatically?

I think “anytime electricity” is a noun phrase, and the rest is just the usual headline shortening. So something like this:

(Analysis finds ((anytime electricity) from solar) available) (as (battery costs) plummet)

In the unsuccessful parse, “anytime“ introduces a relative clause.

(Analysis finds [that] (anytime ((electricity from solar) [is] available))) ???

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#23

$33 per MWh for solar. What is it for coal or natural gas? Maybe half that?

It's already cheaper to demolish an existing coal plant that's already paid for and replace it with solar + battery. Solar and battery brand new buildout, plus their maintenance overhead, dominates coal even when you only count coal's maintenance cost.

People have it in their heads that this is some bleeding heart, don't ruin the planet thing, but it's plain economics. Non-renewable energy is simply inferior, and will only become more so.

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#24

Does anyone know whether it makes sense to setup solar arrays closer to users or to concentrate them in sunny places and send them throughout the country? e.g. an analysis of whether we should setup all the solar farms in Nevada for the whole country... set them up in the general south and transmit north... or will each state have their own farms?

High voltage transmission lines are really quite efficient, and concentrating generation is usually the right choice.

That said, it doesn't make sense to have just a single place for the entire country, as there are multiple grids in the US (primarily East, West, and Texas), and with very long transmission you can get into phase issues.

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#25
post #6

$33 per MWh for solar. What is it for coal or natural gas? Maybe half that?

Why would you think that? Solar and wind are both far cheaper than fossil fuels even ignoring the problems caused by coal and methane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

Fuel cost for gas/coal can be rounded to $2/MWH - so then you need to amortize the cost of the plant over all the energy produced and you get to roughly 2x fuel cost for nat gas plants and 3x - 5x for coal ones. See page 10 here for sensitivity to fuel costs though;

https://www.lazard.com/news-announcements/lazard-releases-20...

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#26
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual headline is: Analysis finds "anytime electricity" from solar available as battery costs plummet. Those missing quotes go a long way to making the headline make sense.

Its still really confusing. A better title would be "When solar power from batteries are available, costs plummet" Or since power has no provenience, "When batteries are available, electricity prices fall"

I assume the intended meaning is “reduced battery costs make around-the-clock solar-generated electricity possible”. I don't think it's possible to predict how technical changes in electricity production and storage impact prices.

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#27

Has any production battery become cheaper than LEAC ACID for computer UPS ? I have not seen new cheaper UPS getting launched.

Lead Acid as far as I know is about $500 per KWh of usable space due to their depth of discharge being limited to about 50% and then they last about 3 to 5 years if they kept within their 500 cycles at most. Whereas a LiPho battery will last 10-15 years, 6000 cycles and costs about £120 a KWh. So I have no idea how UPS based on lead acid is ending up cheaper, its not based on the battery tech cheapness.

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#28
post #4

Am I dumb or does that sentence "Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet" make no sense grammatically?

If they were going for maximum confusion, why not write, “Solar battery costs plummet analysis findings back anytime electricity availability”?

Subject (((((Solar battery) costs) plummet) analysis) findings)

Verb [back]

Object (anytime (electricity availability))

Garden path sentence structure trap creation relies on initial word parse error encouragement. Brain pattern recognition system default subject-verb-object order preference exploitation causes early stop interpretation failure.

Solar battery costs plummet phrase acting as complex noun modifier group creates false sentence finish illusion. Real subject findings arrival delay forces mental backtrack restart necessity.

Noun adjunct modifier stack length excess impacts processing speed negatively. Back word function switch from direction noun to support verb finalizes reader confusion state.

We write to be understood. Short sentences and simple words make the truth easy to see.

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#29

Does anyone know whether it makes sense to setup solar arrays closer to users or to concentrate them in sunny places and send them throughout the country? e.g. an analysis of whether we should setup all the solar farms in Nevada for the whole country... set them up in the general south and transmit north... or will each state have their own farms?

We don't put all our coal and gas plants out in the desert, they're next to and within our cities.

Physically transporting electricity across distance is very expensive and a not-insignificant amount of power is simply lost on the way. These problems only get worse as the amount of power goes up, and the danger grows very quickly as power goes up. Plus the strategic and logistical benefits of distributed generation.

Simply put you can't centralize generation for the entire country. There's no practical way to actually transport that much power. Not with the technology we have today. If we had high-temperature superconductors then it would make more sense. But with standard metal wires, it's not happening.

Re: Analysis finds anytime electricity from solar available as battery costs plummet

#30

Does anyone know whether it makes sense to setup solar arrays closer to users or to concentrate them in sunny places and send them throughout the country? e.g. an analysis of whether we should setup all the solar farms in Nevada for the whole country... set them up in the general south and transmit north... or will each state have their own farms?

technically or politically?
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