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Damn Small Linux

damnsmalllinux.org

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Re: Damn Small Linux

#21

Post by lionkor »

EGreg wrote: post #11

How does this compare to Alpine Linux, Amazon Linux and Slackware, including zipslack? Tiny Core Linux?

I had no issues at all running alpine with a UI on a simulated 128MB RAM machine with a few GB of storage (with simulated 2000's disk speeds). That's 128MB not counting memory for the BIOS, of course.

i3 and NetSurf made that extremely possible. Mind you, the only things that didn't work well were Firefox (wouldn't launch due to OOM) and compiling Rust projects. Single translation units in Rust would immediately OOM the system, whereas C, C++, etc. worked fine.

Re: Damn Small Linux

#23

Post by lionkor »

You can run an entire, productive modern Linux, (minus a modern browser*) on 128MB of RAM and one slow core. If you push lower, you start running into issues. I would recommend having around 200MB or so of swap for sudden spikes of memory usage. An aggressive userspace OOM killer may make life easier.

On Linux, if you just run SDDM that launches xfce, you will quickly OOM the system, because SDDM will stay in memory. The same goes for most desktop managers. So the real way is to just `startx` your desktop environment directly and use console login.

i3 is the best call for usability/a modern feeling, with extremely low memory usage. The reasoning is that, if you're used to sway or i3, this will feel like home, and it has all the features you need to be productive. Anything else will eat more RAM, from what I've tried. It also feels really fast, even if your GPU is struggling, because there are no animations and very little movement.

I would personally recommend Alpine, as it really comes with nothing extra. You can then install a desktop environment manually (or use their setup-desktop script if you have plenty of RAM and storage). TinyCore is a bit too wild to do modern computing on; the paradigms are just too outdated, the installation is a bit of a pain, and the installer would OOM on the same system where I can run my entire i3 alpine setup.

DSL seems cool, I haven't tried it; I just wanted to share my experience.

You can try all of this by setting up a qemu VM. Be aware that you will need more RAM just for the BIOS, so maybe if you configure 210MB, youll end up with around 128 usable, or so. Your OS will report how much is usable, accurately.

You can then set CPU cores with usage limits, limit HDD speeds to 2000's HDD speeds (so that your swap isnt fast), and so on. Its a fun exercise to try to develop software on such a limited machine, and its fun to see which software launches and which doesn't.

*: the browser is an issue. Firefox is the preferrable option, but wouldn't launch on so little RAM. NetSurf or elinks/lynx etc. is the way to go, but websites that rely on JS to work, like any and all Rust documentation sites, will be completely unusable.

Re: Damn Small Linux

#24

Post by bayindirh »

lionkor wrote: post #23

You can run an entire, productive modern Linux, (minus a modern browser*) on 128MB of RAM and one slow core. If you push lower, you start running into issues. I would recommend having around 200MB or so of swap for sudden spikes of memory usage. An aggressive userspace OOM killer may make life easier. On Linux, if you just run SDDM that launches xfce, you will quickly OOM the system, because SDDM will stay in memory.…

DSL is much older, and the original version came as a 50MB disk image.

Current version clocks in ~700MB, again very small when compared to any modern Linux installation media.

On the other hand, it seems like DSL takes a more extreme approach to slimming down i3/XFCE route, plus DSL contains Dillo which is arguably the latest modern-ish (to the most extent possible) and lightest browser in existence.

Re: Damn Small Linux

#25

Post by HPsquared »

lionkor wrote: post #23

You can run an entire, productive modern Linux, (minus a modern browser*) on 128MB of RAM and one slow core. If you push lower, you start running into issues. I would recommend having around 200MB or so of swap for sudden spikes of memory usage. An aggressive userspace OOM killer may make life easier. On Linux, if you just run SDDM that launches xfce, you will quickly OOM the system, because SDDM will stay in memory.…

It's kind of cheating, but I wonder if you could set up some kind of "server side rendering proxy" that would run all the JS on a given page, and send the client a plain html page with hyperlinks in place of interactive JS elements.

Edit: https://www.brow.sh/

Re: Damn Small Linux

#26

Post by lionkor »

HPsquared wrote: post #25
lionkor wrote: post #23

You can run an entire, productive modern Linux, (minus a modern browser*) on 128MB of RAM and one slow core. If you push lower, you start running into issues. I would recommend having around 200MB or so of swap for sudden spikes of memory usage. An aggressive userspace OOM killer may make life easier. On Linux, if you just run SDDM that launches xfce, you will quickly OOM the system, because SDDM will stay in memory.…

It's kind of cheating, but I wonder if you could set up some kind of "server side rendering proxy" that would run all the JS on a given page, and send the client a plain html page with hyperlinks in place of interactive JS elements. Edit: https://www.brow.sh/

That's a wonderful idea! Thank you!

Re: Damn Small Linux

#27

Post by k3vinw »

pharos92 wrote: post #10

Every time I looked at DSL, I never understood the need to include 4 Web Browsers in a distro that supposedly prides itself on size.

Agreed. Why not have one installed by default and the other 3 could be recommended by DSL as alternatives?

Re: Damn Small Linux

#28

Post by adhamsalama »

HPsquared wrote: post #25
lionkor wrote: post #23

You can run an entire, productive modern Linux, (minus a modern browser*) on 128MB of RAM and one slow core. If you push lower, you start running into issues. I would recommend having around 200MB or so of swap for sudden spikes of memory usage. An aggressive userspace OOM killer may make life easier. On Linux, if you just run SDDM that launches xfce, you will quickly OOM the system, because SDDM will stay in memory.…

It's kind of cheating, but I wonder if you could set up some kind of "server side rendering proxy" that would run all the JS on a given page, and send the client a plain html page with hyperlinks in place of interactive JS elements. Edit: https://www.brow.sh/

Would that work with CORS?

Re: Damn Small Linux

#29

Post by shakna »

monus wrote: post #9

The problem with old computers isn’t that they’re slow but fail randomly so they don’t need “smaller” Linux, they need more resiliency that can work with random RAM erros, corrupt disks, absurd CPU instruction failures. The size was a 90s problem.

My old computers that I still run _are_ 90s machines.

Well, technically the eee is '07. But it is 32bit and everything that entails.

Re: Damn Small Linux

#30

Post by bux93 »

HPsquared wrote: post #25
lionkor wrote: post #23

You can run an entire, productive modern Linux, (minus a modern browser*) on 128MB of RAM and one slow core. If you push lower, you start running into issues. I would recommend having around 200MB or so of swap for sudden spikes of memory usage. An aggressive userspace OOM killer may make life easier. On Linux, if you just run SDDM that launches xfce, you will quickly OOM the system, because SDDM will stay in memory.…

It's kind of cheating, but I wonder if you could set up some kind of "server side rendering proxy" that would run all the JS on a given page, and send the client a plain html page with hyperlinks in place of interactive JS elements. Edit: https://www.brow.sh/

Opera Mini's "extreme mode" takes this approach. The server pre-renders content, also stripping out things the client doesn't need or that would require a lot of resources/bandwidth.

Note that this does present a bit of a man-in-the-middle scenario, and Opera's chief income is from advertising (and "query").

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