Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56 • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#21

Post by StavrosK » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 4:09 PM UTC

wglb wrote: post #8

f4stjack wrote: post #2

Actually burning midnight oil is a myth. I mean we all know the myth: You grab your coffee, black as night and sweet as sin, you sit in front of your computer with your favourite IDE on. Then you code until the sun sets and you go home with a majestic smile on your face. Because, you - the lonely coder - has saved the day. Yet again. I mean I was really into this image when I was 20. Now, after had some experience in…

Actually, it is not a myth. I have done this, more when I was younger, but it still happens occasionally. One reason for the midnight oil is that the phone stop ringing, everybody else goes home, there are no distractions. Another reason is that the business demands it. Let me give you an example. There is a story that the folks at WordPerfect, which had (and still has, if my mother is any indication) fiercely loyal…

These are two different things. One is working at night, and the other is working non-stop. I like working at night (I wake up at 1ish pm and go to sleep at 4-5) because it's more quiet.

I don't put in 16-hour days, though. There's a clear distinction between the two, and "burning the midnight oil" refers to the former. You can get the advantages of working nights without overworking.

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#22

Post by ken » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 4:09 PM UTC

henrik_w wrote: post #4

On the subject of working a lot of hours, this article argues that a 40-hour work week is optimal (you don't get more done even if you work longer hours) http://www.alternet.org/story/154518/why_we_have_to_go_back_...

I only skimmed that article, but I don't see anywhere it says 40 hours is optimal. I only see where it says every hour beyond 40 is harmful:

"By the eighth hour of the day, people's best work is usually already behind them (typically turned in between hours 2 and 6)."

It sounds like 30 hours might well be optimal, but has simply never been tested.

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#23

Post by saraid216 » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 4:21 PM UTC

Tomis02 wrote: post #11

Here we go again. Conversation through HN submissions.

I wouldn't call it a conversation. He doesn't remotely address a single point in the original post. We could call it a presidential debate, maybe?

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#24

Post by vowelless » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 4:31 PM UTC

I have been coding since I was 11... I am 23 now. I cannot imagine a different outcome for myself.

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#25

Post by notlisted » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 4:43 PM UTC

f4stjack wrote: post #2

Actually burning midnight oil is a myth. I mean we all know the myth: You grab your coffee, black as night and sweet as sin, you sit in front of your computer with your favourite IDE on. Then you code until the sun sets and you go home with a majestic smile on your face. Because, you - the lonely coder - has saved the day. Yet again. I mean I was really into this image when I was 20. Now, after had some experience in…

In college I used to dream in/of code. More than once I've fixed things in the hour or so that I was about to fall asleep, got up, made the changes half asleep, and went back to bed. More often than not, it actually worked the next morning.

In those days (85-90) version control wasn't a big thing with a 1MB machine, 65MB HD) but my habit of "take a manual snapshot of my current project at the end of every day" is the result of one or two failed "sleepcoding" events.

Tangent: reading the post the other day about how Turbo Pascal fit in 40kB blew my mind and brought back many good memories. I also realized I was much smarter then.

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#26

Post by ww520 » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 4:55 PM UTC

henrik_w wrote: post #4

On the subject of working a lot of hours, this article argues that a 40-hour work week is optimal (you don't get more done even if you work longer hours) http://www.alternet.org/story/154518/why_we_have_to_go_back_...

I would argue that in those 60 hours work week or 90 hours work week people mostly idling, staring at the screen, or browsing the web, or doing other stuff. The real work happens in much less time. Most companies equate face time in office as work and thus people just put in long hours there.

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#27

Post by henrik_w » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 5:03 PM UTC

ken wrote: post #22

henrik_w wrote: post #4

On the subject of working a lot of hours, this article argues that a 40-hour work week is optimal (you don't get more done even if you work longer hours) http://www.alternet.org/story/154518/why_we_have_to_go_back_...

I only skimmed that article, but I don't see anywhere it says 40 hours is optimal. I only see where it says every hour beyond 40 is harmful: "By the eighth hour of the day, people's best work is usually already behind them (typically turned in between hours 2 and 6)." It sounds like 30 hours might well be optimal, but has simply never been tested.

You're right. Good point.

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#28

Post by elliottcarlson » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 5:24 PM UTC

joelreymont wrote: post #6

f4stjack wrote: post #2

Actually burning midnight oil is a myth. I mean we all know the myth: You grab your coffee, black as night and sweet as sin, you sit in front of your computer with your favourite IDE on. Then you code until the sun sets and you go home with a majestic smile on your face. Because, you - the lonely coder - has saved the day. Yet again. I mean I was really into this image when I was 20. Now, after had some experience in…

I once spent the night on the stern of a sailboat with 6 cans of Red Bull, debugging a Mac driver for a piece of hardware that may end up being used by Foxconn to test iPhones. I would have been much more comfortable in the cabin but the marina WiFi network didn't reach that far. Why burn the midnight oil? It was either that or no sailing out next morning to spend a week at sea.

That just seems highly irresponsible though - you are working on adrenaline and caffeine to get a product out so you can go away and be offline for a week right after. I've been in your shoes before, and tight deadlines can warrant the need to just get shit done - but I also make sure I am around after some brief rest to handle any additional issues.

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#29

Post by donebizkit » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 5:27 PM UTC

Yesterday's post was closer to the actuality of a programmer than this one. To reiterate what I said yesterday, when you are coding professionally, you don't choose what technologies to use, you don't pick projects that itch your creative side. You're just part of a production steam roll. Passion is irrelevant in this discussion. What matters is how fast you can deliver and whether you are more billable than the next guy. The other parameter in this equation is Money. I am sure I can find a low stress dev job working on a project that I am actually interested in but at age 50 i don't want to be living on medium wage making ends meet. I'd rather work on a high stress job, while I am young, with a decent salary, giving it all I have and by 40 I'd have secured my future enough that I can do something else ... my two cents

Re: Yes I Still Want To Be Doing This at 56

#30

Post by rooshdi » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 5:33 PM UTC

Boy, if I could make it to 40 that would be a doozy. I do wonder if programming will be obsolete in a few decades and if the things we've programmed will start programming us. Well, I guess they already do in a way.